simwitness

Joined 23 years ago

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Posts by simwitness

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  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  21 years ago

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

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  11 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  scholar,

  are you serious in your statement here?

  Not one poster on this board has provide a shred of secular evidence that only supports 586 or 587. I have repeatedly asked for one piece of evidence and all I get is smoke and mirrors.

  really, if you are, I suggest you seek proffesional help, as not only this very thread provided a couple of pieces of secular evidence, both threads I linked provided evidence, and countless others have provided evidence. Perhaps you have a memory problem, since you seem to forget these things so quickly.

  Beyond that, what does it matter wether or not we have provided any evidence in support of our date? We have asked you to provide any secular evidence that supports 607 as the date of Jerusalem's destruction. You keep deflecting that back, when you have said that 607 is supported. Please show us that support.

  As to this statement:

  I have provided evidence for 507 begiining with Stage One namely the Nabonidus Chronicle will clearly attests to the date for the Fall of Babylon. I will not comment on Stage 2 or 3 until the contrary position is stated.

  You have not shown any secular evidence as to the destruction of Jerusalem , you have only provided a date for Babylon's destruction, and a biblical interpetation for how that applies to Jerusalem's... that is not "secular evidence for the date of 607".

  Either admit that you have no evidence, as you have never supplied any, or provide some.

  Have a pleasant day.

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  9

  Jesus chose the WTS in 1918/9, it's the only absolute!

  by Deleted in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  21 years ago

  after all the dust settles it appears that the only thing the wts can hang its hat on is that jesus approved what the wts was doing to further the kingdom interests in 1918/9 - no matter the changes of new light before and since.

  so just what was it that the wts doing at that time?

  selling copies of the finished mystery printed in 1917. courtesy of heraldmag.org here is the text of that book http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/bsl/library/comntary/rev/finish/vol7.pdf at sites like freeminds and shaun's research there's some good brief analytical work on many of the 1500 "errors" contained therein.

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  the light of truth gets brighter and brighter

  Yeah, but it helps if the bulb wasn't burnt out to begin with!!!!

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  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  21 years ago

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

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  11 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  There have been several threads on the 607 date recently... in everyone of them scholar has attempted to maintain that 607 is the correct date. To date, he has yet to ever provide any secular evidence to back his claim. His only evidence is that which is provided by the WTBS in the form of the AID or insight books.

  I would suggest that all readers review the earlier threads and discussions... debating with scholar about it is a pointless endeavor... much like fishing in a swimming pool.

  We're still waiting for him to respond to comments on this thread:

  "SCHOLAR" and UNFINISHED BUSINESS
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/61024/1.ashx

  And here is a very K.I.S.S thread about 607 that uses the WTBS's own publications to prove that 607 is the incorrect date:

  586/587 the K.I.S.S. approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/55372/807441/post.ashx#807441

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  90

  Which Bible Translation is Currently the MOST Accurate in Your Opinion?

  by Frannie Banannie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  21 years ago

  i really wanna know.

  i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.

  frannie b

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  One has to wonder why scholar and the WTBS is so incistent on them being "unknown and unknowable"...

  They are not "unknowable"... there are records, there are witnesses (pardon the pun) that do know thier identities. Therefore they are knowable.

  Just because the committee and the WTBS wish to remain anonymous, does not mean that it is possible for them to remain so. If someone "in the know" chooses to disclose the information, they can. It is up to the committee/WTBS to confirm or deny that information... If the WTBS were to deny it's validity, that is one thing. To the best of my knowledge, they have not... they prefer to call it "rumors and gossip", thereby attempting to discredit the source without dealing with the actual information.

  We have a list of names from Ray Franz of the committee members. It is up to the individual to decide if the source of those names is trustworthy.

  What would Ray have to gain by publishing a list of incorrect names? If they were wrong, his credibility suffers. If they are correct, what true difference does it make? After all, The WTBS, and scholar, maintain that the committee was "under the direction of the holy spirit" and would not dare to question the validity of the work itself.

  The question then becomes what does the society have to gain from keeping the committee anonymous? Since there are questions as to the validity of certain passages in the NWT, only the translator(s) could properly speak to why they chose one form over another. Since the WTBS wants them to be "anonymous" they attempt to hide that it was men who did the translation and attempt to claim that it was the "holy spirit" or "god" that directed it, and claim that the translation is sound.

  In the end, when one is presented with a claim that is not easily verifiable, it is the credibility of the person making the claim that is used to decide if the claim is valid. Since Ray has nothing to gain and everything to lose by making his claim, his is more credible than scholars "unknown and unknowable" claim. The WTBS has everything to lose and nothing to gain by revealing the committees names.

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  15

  Jesus has supported immortal soul!?

  by Mr Bean in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  21 years ago

  he fully supported pharisees, knowing well their teachings regards.

  immortal soul.. .

  yet he supported them in their dispute with sadducees.. .

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  While Jesus criticized the Pharisees' legalism, I really can't think of any occasion where he criticized their theology

  But, wasn't the pharisees theology so entrenched in legalism that they were, in essence, one and the same? By criticizing thier legalistic approach, or focus, wasn't he in fact criticizing the theology?

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  25

  MEETING ATTENDANCE SOARS and HALLS ARE FILLED TO CAPACITY! 2004 YB.

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  21 years ago

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  2004 yb.page 23.. during the 2003 service year,2,340 kingdom halls were completed around the world.this represents an average of 195 halls per month,or just over 6 per day!since november 1999 when the construction program in lands with limited resources began,7,730 kingdom halls have been built.in many areas,once a hall is finished,meeting attendance soars and halls are soon filled to capacity.. my comment:this is nothing new.from the time of the dedication till the newness wears off this is usually the trend.halls filled to capacity does not indicate new converts.proof of this is when the memorial season comes around the halls usually are filled and then the very next meeting they are not filled to capacity.so,for one night meeting attendance soars then declines just as swiftly the next.. i am told that my hall which usually had a least 100 in attendance now has about 35 on school nights and 60 on sunday.what about your hall does it soar and is it filled to capacity?.

  blueblades

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  well, let's see...

  Sell 5 due to low attendance, combine those into 1 "newly built" hall...

  Sounds like a recipe for (financial) success...

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  21

  125,725 JW Publishers are MISSING !!!

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  21 years ago

  blueblades posted the 2003 service year report.

  the watchtower society makes it appear that they grew 2.2% (which is lower than some of their earlier percentages) ... but the way they present the data, does not reveal the truth.

  [note: the chart below is the smallest i could get it ... sorry for the inconvenience.

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  The Parable of the Lost Sheep
  
  1 Now the tax collectors and "sinners" were all gathering around to hear him. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."
  3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 "Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

  hmmm..... wonder what the WTBS is more concerned with???

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  7

  1941 -- 1914

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  21 years ago

  interesting after the infamous pearl harbor -- many of that "generation" are dying off -- hell it was 60 years ago -- it was a full 37 years after 1914 -- i know 1914 was an important year -- but surely 1941 was more significant -- 1945 with the nuke was also very significant and 1957 with the dawn of the space age -- leaving aside your wtbts prejudices -- which year in the last century was the most marked year?

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  What year was it that Al Gore invented the internet???

  That "event" in and of itslef has caused many changes to the way many people live. Granted, it has it's downside, but there is alot to be said for the "information age" and it's affect on people in general.

  IMHO, it is this that will change our direction more than any war or other singular event... it has to happen on a collective scale, and over time.

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  84

  WTS Says Non-JWs will be SAVED !!!

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  21 years ago

  clearly, anyone reading this watchtower society response to a "frequently asked question" on their jw-media site would conclude that jehovah's witnesses fully accept that god will spare non-jws through armageddon and grant them salvation.

  all that one has to do is take a "stand for truth and righteousness" before god's time of judgment.

  therefore, as former-jws, hence also non-jws, we have absolutely taken a stand for "truth and righteousness" such as exposing the criminal behavour of the watchtower leadership and their policies, such as their program that acts to protect jw child molesters.

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation.

  What's not spelled out here is the societys definition of exactly what that "stand" is... IMHO, this is the most dispicable form of double speak and hypocrisy.... Saying one thing while teaching/enforcing something entirely different.

  And yet, there is just enough "fuzziness" that you can't quite call them on it.... So, what do they "really" believe?????

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  10

  JUST GOT THIS FRM WEBSHOTS...........

  by qwerty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  21 years ago

  below is an email from webshots.

  does this prove the wt is surfing looking for copyright violations?.

  thanks for uploading photos to webshots.. .

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  21 years ago
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  simwitness 21 years ago

  This link might help:

  http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/arts/topic.aspx?topic=parody_satire

  And I think this case is applicable:

  Leibovitz v. Paramount Pictures Corporation
  Paramount did a teaser ad for the film, ?Naked Gun: The Final Insult 33 1/3.? The ad spoofed a 1991 cover of Vanity Fair,which featured a photo of a pregnant, nude Demi Moore. Paramount got another model, who was also pregnant, to pose nude. The head of Leslie Nielsen, the star of the film, was superimposed onto the body of the model. A federal district court and the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals held that the parody ad was a fair use.

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