(the title is hyperbole bt the way as is the use of ape, i just didn't know the name of the creature that is supposed to have developed speech)).
something is puzzling me about the history of humankind and the stories that have been passed down through generations as fact.
the various histories of how man came to be.. which leads me to the question,.
seeker
"Your thoughts about the "talking apes" etc. are just too silly to respond to. Maybe a little study and research is in order."
"Ape like creature"actually.Which is what humans are .
Please explain why this is so sillyas at some point speech would have to have become common place weather they were more ape like or human like is just a point of definition.
(the title is hyperbole bt the way as is the use of ape, i just didn't know the name of the creature that is supposed to have developed speech)).
something is puzzling me about the history of humankind and the stories that have been passed down through generations as fact.
the various histories of how man came to be.. which leads me to the question,.
Hello Larc.
You said
"Early peoples had no idea where they came from."
But this is the point in question.Did they infact have some idea?
"They had no idea about how basic phenomena of nature worked either. So, what they did was place causality onto a God or a multitude of God's"
Yes their lack of understanding many aspects of nature could be used to show that the idea of a "God" is just one of their misunderstandings.
But many ancient cultures did have a good grasp on some important principles , witness the pyrimids of Giza and other ancient structures also many had a good understanging of astrology hence the many monuments that are linked to postions of the Sun , moon and stars.
Why should so many ancient cultures make up the idea of a God etc.If you are brough up today without the belief in a God forced on you it will not be an instinctive option to belive in a God.
(the title is hyperbole bt the way as is the use of ape, i just didn't know the name of the creature that is supposed to have developed speech)).
something is puzzling me about the history of humankind and the stories that have been passed down through generations as fact.
the various histories of how man came to be.. which leads me to the question,.
(The title is hyperbole bt the way as is the use of ape, I just didn't know the name of the creature that is supposed to have developed speech))
Something is puzzling me about the history of humankind and the stories that have been passed down through generations as fact. The various histories of how man came to be.
Which leads me to the question,
Should human oral and written history be taken more seriously?
Why so?
Well lets consider. Now I am not an expert on ancient cultures so I could be wrong , but as far as I am aware none or very few of the creation myths that have come down to us through time talk of human origins being that of animals who gradually became human.
Would we expect to see this?
Well lets consider. If at one time some of the ape like creature from which we are supposed to be descended from learn to communicate by speech. Of course this happens gradualy.Maybe some in a group learn to understand and communicate with each other. These have offspring who inherited this ability and these ape break away from the other groups who can not communicate well. Of course they don't have perfect flowing speech but over time this develops while other similar apes remain speechless. Wont then this ape men notice that there are other like them but which cannot communicate through speech? Will this then be passed on down through their offspring?
Why does human history not contain these stories that humans came from the apes.?
Instead around the world we get these stories.
Human life came when Gods came down from the heavens and made man.
Now there are many variations on these themes but basically with have alien beings (Gods)coming from space(the heavens) who are somehow involved in human life.
We also have a sudden outbreak of art and civilisation only 6 or 7 thousand years ago.
Also we note that humans are very different to every other creatures. In which way?
Well the main most unique defining aspect of humans is their consciousness.
No other animal is conscious like a human being .In fact humans are more different to a monkey than a monkey is to a worm or a fish. The human mind with its consciousness should not be ignored as some trivial matter, it is what we are.
So why do ancient cultures continually speak of beings from outer space? Why the obsession with the stars and constellations? With Gods and religion?
Are we ignoring a vital clue about human origins by believing that the foundation of these stories is just a myth?
I am not making the claim here that these ancient stories are true , but it is possible that they could be based on some truth .Maybe human like creature did evolve on earth but late in our history there was some outside help.
Or maybe none of this is true and very early humans could not understand that they came from similar creatures that they saw around them or they did and these stories were lost , replaced by ones talking of Gods and strange creatures.
What do you think?
(Just putting my crash helmet on and waiting for the backlash)
the watchtower is right about this.. w.4.1.02 pg3.. "if we are truly interested in pleasing god,should we not consider seriously the accuracy of what we believe about him?".
of course that is unless you are a witness where "mature christians....do not harbour private ideas when it comes to bible understanding".
are these watchtower writers so stupid as not to notice there absolutly contradictory statements they make?.
The watchtower is right about this.
W.4.1.02 pg3.
"If we are truly interested in pleasing God,should we not consider seriously the accuracy of what we believe about him?"
Of course that is unless you are a witness where "mature christians....do not harbour private ideas when it comes to bible understanding"
Are these watchtower writers so stupid as not to notice there absolutly contradictory statements they make?
Come on these people have got to be so daft ,I carnt believe anyone sane person could be a witness.... oh , I was one.
Oh crap.
ok, so i admit to impliment this idea takes more balls than i've got but i know there are some crazy ex jws out there (no offence intended, i love you all!
) that it might appeal to.. that idea is streaking!!!!.
i was watching a program on tv last night streaking (running butt naked into a crowded public arena) and perhaps mainly the uk members remember the stir caused by erica roe?.
I remmeber someone telling once of a streaker at a Southhampton assembly.
when is a nutter going to get his revenge on the society?.
there are plenty of psychos out there who have become jw's.how long will it be before someone who has left the org and is mentally unstable is going to get revenge on the society?.
i think the gb should be worried for their lives, if someone gets into bethal with a gun or a bomb they could get blasted to smithereens.. i know it has happened at least twise.a bomb in a kingdom hall in austrailia and i think a fire in korea that killed a lot of witnesses.. but think of how violent the us is compared to a lot of countries and how easy gun accses is there.. it may not be a question of if , but when.
When is a nutter going to get his revenge on the society?
There are plenty of psychos out there who have become JW's.How long will it be before someone who has left the org and is mentally unstable is going to get revenge on the society?
I think the GB should be worried for their lives, if someone gets into Bethal with a gun or a bomb they could get blasted to smithereens.
I know it has happened at least twise.A bomb in a kingdom hall in Austrailia and I think a fire in Korea that killed a lot of witnesses.
But think of how violent the US is compared to a lot of countries and how easy gun accses is there.
It may not be a question of if , but when.
does anyone know anymore about this in the uk?.
major news and updates from paul kevin.
the bbc in england are looking for people to come forward who are, or who have been, jehovah's witnesses and who will tell of the abuse they have suffered by being involved with the watchtower.. .
This seams like some good news and I think I would be willing to take part but...
"The BBC in England are looking for people to come forward who are, or who have been, Jehovah's witnesses and who will tell of the abuse they have suffered by being involved with the Watchtower."
Now I would say being a witness and coming out causes great mental stress and worse for many people.But shouldn't the issue be are Jehovahs witnesses right?
I would like to see much more a programme on the history and doctrine of Jehovahs witness.That also includes the effect it can have on people.
If they just focus on emotional issues then this leaves a lot of room open to interpretation.
But if we can show that the society has twisted truth and spread properganda to its members then surely this leaves less room for interpretation.
whats the good news?.
well in case you don't know in britian there is a government campain to make access available to the internet to every single person in britian within 5 years.. soon internet access will be wide spread via the tv without the need for a computer.. as i say thats bad news for the society.
Whats the good news?
Well in case you don't know in Britian there is a government campain to make access available to the internet to every single person in Britian within 5 years.
Soon internet access will be wide spread via the TV without the need for a computer.
As I say thats bad news for the society.
come on admit it, if you were brought up a witness you were dead scared that you were going to end up like the men you saw prowling the assembles and congregations looking for wives.. there would always be men and women in there 30's and 40 who had never had a boy or girl friend.. i used to know quite a few.. the horror of their lives shocks me.. now i not dissing anyone who has chosen not to marry that is their choice.but these people i know want to meet someone and get married.. but the bad news is that the older they get the harder it is to find a wife .what makes it worse is that the choice is so limited.. many of these grown men are even affraid of women .
why?.
because they are taught that even to look at a woman is to commit imorality let alone talk to one.. i knew a brother who had never had a girl friend , he was about 26 at the time.now a sister asks to go out with him so he accepts.quite soon she wants to hold his hand.. this brother now tells her off, for in the family book it says holding hands is only for people who are going to get married.. he doesn't go out with such a spiritually weak sister again.. what has the socity done to these peoples lives.. many people who were once happy teenagers hoping to meet the wife or husband of their dreams are now approaching 40 or even older and have never even had a girlfriend.theri only hope is the new system and i don't want to breack the news to them but its not coming.
Come on admit it, if you were brought up a witness you were dead scared that you were going to end up like the men you saw prowling the assembles and congregations looking for wives.
There would always be men and women in there 30's and 40 who had never had a boy or girl friend.
I used to know quite a few.
The horror of their lives shocks me.
Now I not dissing anyone who has chosen not to marry that is their choice.But these people I know want to meet someone and get married.
But the bad news is that the older they get the harder it is to find a wife .What makes it worse is that the choice is so limited.
Many of these grown men are even affraid of women . Why?
Because they are taught that even to look at a woman is to commit imorality let alone talk to one.
I knew a brother who had never had a girl friend , he was about 26 at the time.Now a sister asks to go out with him so he accepts.Quite soon she wants to hold his hand.
This brother now tells her off, for in the family book it says holding hands is only for people who are going to get married.
He doesn't go out with such a spiritually weak sister again.
What has the socity done to these peoples lives.
Many people who were once happy teenagers hoping to meet the wife or husband of their dreams are now approaching 40 or even older and have never even had a girlfriend.Theri only hope is the new system and I don't want to breack the news to them but its not coming.
is there no hope for truly understanding the universe?.
if a person believes that we were created by a supreme being who is in control of and fully understands the universe, he may reason that we were created with the ability to also understand the universe.. but if we are not created and have just evolved as part of a natural prosses why should we asume that our brain should have any grasp on a true understanding of things.. how can we know that our brains just are not in tune or cannot grasp any of the fundementaly important concepts that case this universe to exist?.
maybe in trying to understand the universe we are just tying ourselves up in knot trying to know the unknowable?
Abbadon
"You are speculating at the possible limits to human understanding of a non-god Universe, when we do not seem to have reached them"
I not sure that i'm speculating, just asking the question why should we expect to understand the universe?It would be somekind of amazing fluke if our brains had the ccappability of understanding everthing.And thats what we would be asking of it to understand the universe (by that i mean everything that exists) is to understand everything.
I think we have a long way to go yet with human knowledge and capability .
Lets look at a few possibilities.
1.information is infinite.
2.information has a limit.
3.The human brain is infinite.
4.The human brain has a limit.
5.The human brain can always understand information
6.The human brain can sometimes understand information.
If we jiggle around a bit you will find many combinations of possbilites .
For example information could have a limit and so could the human brain but those limits could be a different levels and the brains ability to understand information that it thinks it knows could be limited.
With most situations apart from the brain konwing everything and understanding it, we would have a situation were we could not know if we knew everything because we don't know everything.
