TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  73

  JWN, 23 years posting Blondie

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can i call you friends, i think so after 23 years posting here.

  i am dismayed how jwn is being "dominated" or taken over by a few posters, peppering the comments.

  in the past, the admin did not approve of this and did remove some posters from jwn.

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  TonusOH

  Rattigan350: No one lied to you.

  I disagree. Example: the WTS told young people that they would "never grow old in this system of things." This fulfills the second definition of a lie that you posted. I would argue that it also is covered by the first definion, as I do not think they should get a pass for believing something they had no defensible reason to believe. If I tell you that a comet passing by the Earth is really a spaceship that is going to rapture true believers, the fact that I am deranged enough to believe this doesn't mean it isn't a lie.

  Mind you, I am not feeling charitable enough to wave off WTS lies by claiming that they were deluded. I'm confident that none of the WTS leadership who ever "clarified" anything thought that they were also not in their right minds when they made their own (ultimately failed) prognostications. At some point, the only options are that they are stupid, deluded, mislead... or deceivers. I'm willing to agree that they might be a combination of those, but they definitely have lied.
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  3032

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  Of course, he leaves himself an out when claiming that he welcomes 'diverse' opinions-- any comments that are "hateful, judgmental, abusive or invasive" will be ignored and the user blocked.

  In other words, any comment or opinion that isn't slavishly and unreservedly supportive of him will fall into the category of 'hateful/judgmental/abusive/invasive.' Good luck, people who support him! Remember to be as gentle and supportive as you can, or he will run roughshod over you and your stupid and ignorant opinion and bigoted and hateful statements! If you really cross the line by saying something offensive like "I disagree," you might find yourself added to his active, ongoing, and super-important criminal lawsuit!!!
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  60

  1/25 WT: Oral and Anal sex are a go - if she's ok with it

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he will not pressure her to engage in sexual acts that make her feel uncomfortable, that are demeaning, or that bother her conscience..... the bible does not provide details as to what sexual practices between a husband and a wife should be considered clean or unclean.

  a christian couple must make decisions that reflect their resolve to honor jehovah, to please each other, and to maintain a clean conscience.

  generally speaking, a couple would not discuss with others this intimate aspect of their marriage..

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  TonusOH

  This issue was mentioned in Ray Franz's Crisis of Consceince. There were many couples who were distraught at the inistence by the GB of only the most basic sex positions and restrictions on foreplay. The idea that this group of old prudes needed to intrude on the most intimate part of a married couple's relationship should have been ridiculous even back then. The fact that they held on to this power even as it stressed relationships among the rank-and-file is insane.

  I guess the snippet quoted in the first post shows that, even now, the rank-and-file struggle with the fallout from this silly and invasive approach.
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  7

  FOR ACTIVE JW's: January 2025 Study Watchtower: Where is JESUS?

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  didn't jehovah assign christ all power & authority?

  so why no mention of him?.

  from the january 2025 study watchtower: .

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  TonusOH

  The most awkward thing is when they refer to themselves as "Jehovah's Christian Witnesses." It's as if they realize how glaring the omission is, but they are stuck with the JW name. So they occasionally slip in "Christian" as a way to remind themselves that Jesus is a part of the belief system.
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  16

  Explanation for changes to Disfellowshipping rules at Annual Meeting

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wally, a youtuber from jw thoughts highlighted something that was said by kenneth cook jnr in the annual meeting.

  he thinks it may be removed before they publish the agm.

  i doubt we would see it in writing either.. part of kenneth's talk was about the changes regarding disfellowshipping and the clip from jw thoughts youtube shows him saying -.

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  TonusOH

  "Don't work for the food that perishes (“adjustments, new light”) but for the food that lasts for eternal life

  So... Twinkies?
  
  
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  18

  NEW LIGHT ON THE 144,000 EXPLAINED

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://youtu.be/heulwyd00ku?si=9az0zrsquy67v74g.

  the watchtower’s approach to "new light" is, frankly, a masterclass in manipulation.

  when they introduce a new interpretation or change their teachings, it's presented as a revelation, showcasing just how guided and spiritually in-tune the governing body is.

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  TonusOH

  I think the problem began decades ago, when the steady downtrend of partakers slowed to a near-stop. This is when they opened the door just a bit, by claiming that there could still be partakers after the 'doors were closed' in 1935, to account for replacements. Once that door was opened, more people 'heard the heavenly calling.' The numbers began to stay flat and occasionally increase.

  The WTS then opened that door just a bit wider, by claiming that they couldn't say anyone was wrong to partake. They understood that this stance was risky, so they basically said that new partakers might be mentally ill. But that didn't do anything to slow the increase in partakers, to the point where it was no longer salvageable. Once the number had increased from ~9,000 to more than 20,000, it was clear that the doors had been thrown wide open.

  The problem is that this is one of their core teachings, and fiddling with it is risky. New explanations will replace and supercede older ones, in which case the rank-and-file might have some questions. Such as wondering about the old 'replacement' explanation. Or the old 'mental illness' explanation. Presenting it as new light from Jehovah just shifts the blame-- now it's god's fault that they called people crazy for partaking? Oof.
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  73

  JWN, 23 years posting Blondie

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can i call you friends, i think so after 23 years posting here.

  i am dismayed how jwn is being "dominated" or taken over by a few posters, peppering the comments.

  in the past, the admin did not approve of this and did remove some posters from jwn.

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  TonusOH

  Rattigan350: people complaining that in 1969 an Awake article said

  So, we shouldn't focus on the past...

  Rattigan350: Or the current governing body.

  ...and we shouldn't talk about the present.

  I'm gonna take a pass on that advice. It's a forum for exJWs. We're necessarily going to talk about the organization's past and present. It might suck to talk about how they lied to us, but it sucks a lot more that they lied to us. I don't come here to try and save JWs; it's not the best place to start. I come here to commiserate with other exJWs. It's a normal and healthy human behavior.
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  16

  A jury acquits Jehovah’s Witness in PA.

  by was a new boy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  trial of lancaster city jehovah’s witness member accused of molestation begins.

  jose antonio serrano.

  lancaster county prison.

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  TonusOH

  Hell, I have enough trouble remembering what I did yesterday.
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  51

  Leaked Annual Meeting Video: "Expect Sudden Changes" Jeffrey Jackson

  by raymond frantz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://youtu.be/uxqqyrrffow?si=wo0jotyvjg76oljk.

  well that's sort of related to the next talk on our program brother jeffrey jackson will discuss the theme don't be surprised by sudden changes, brother jeff you have our.

  attention well i'm sure we all agree with this fact in recent years there have been a lot of changes even since the last annual meeting there have been many changes some of them perhaps are a little surprising or may seem to be sudden but you know brothers and sisters when we look back on how these changes have come we can see that jehovah has gradually prepared us for each of these adjustments and changes let's review some of the recent changes we've had what changes have we seen with regard to our understand understanding of bible teachings at the 2021 annual meeting we received an adjusted understanding of john 529 it was explained that the resurrection of judgment will not be a judgment of condemnation rather it will be more like a period of probation the unrighteous mentioned at acts 24:15 will have an opportunity to gain everlasting life but their names will not be written wr in the book of life at the time of their resurrection to have their names eventually written in that book these ones will need to respond positively to the great educational work that will take place during the thousand-year reign then at the annual meeting in 2023 we gained enhanced insight into what we do know and what we don't know concerning jehovah's judgments we learned that the door of opportunity for people to take a stand for the kingdom does not shut when the great tribulation starts with the destruction of false religion at that time perhaps some will be like the egyptians in moses day who took a last minute stand and joined the exodus of god's people at the same annual meeting we adjusted our views with regard to jehovah's judgments of those who died in the flood and those who were destroyed in sodom and gomorrah also at that annual meeting an adjustment was made regarding the reporting of our time and activity in our preaching work instead of focusing on reports we try to make good use of every opportunity to witness then we receive the 2024 governing body update number two in that update we saw the need to adjust how we interact with those who have committed serious sins and have been removed from the congregation what other major adjustments have we recently seen in our preaching work the emphasis now is on studing bible studies and making disciples not on distributing literature to that end the focus is on studying meaningful conversations not just on using memorized presentations were you surprised by these adjustments perhaps so but as we look back we see how one adjustment in understanding gradually helped us with the next adjustment isn't it true that gradually jehovah has prepared us and when we look back on it we see how logical this training has been to refine our understanding but events in the world likewise have changed it's true sometimes in the world you have sudden changes for example the pandemic but often times change in the world is gradual isn't it true with regard to the view of morality homosexuality abortion even what's acceptable and not acceptable with regard to conduct all of that has happened gradually in the world and it's not until you look back and see how different the world is today with regard to those matters that we see that there have been a lot of changes but this can be dangerous because as things gradually change we may get used to gradual change and forget that there are some sudden changes about to occur uh let's take our bibles please and if you turn with me to the book of luke chap 21 now this is an example of sudden change in luke chap 21 uh notice there in verse 34 the words of our lord jesus are recorded and he said in verse 34 but pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with oving and heavy drinking and anxieties of life and suddenly suddenly that they be instantly instantly upon you it's interesting to note that jesus had already said that this day he was referring to would occur at a time that we don't think is likely so what lesson do we learn from what jesus said it's a warning isn't it that we can't just sit back and think well things are gradually going to develop we know which way it's going and maybe it's not going to happen yet you know got a little bit more wiggle room there with regard to the schedule but you see that's dangerous thinking now what we're going to do is consider two examples of areas where perhaps we could be a little guilty with regard to that for example our view as with regard to the number of anointed ones remaining on the earth now for many years what did we think we thought well that number would go down and down and down and down now i don't know about you but me i you when that report came out just how many how many partakers and and what were we thinking we probably you maybe we didn't say it but we were thinking you know the number will go down down down down and there'll be just a couple of old guys in a wheelchair who will get their reward well i'm exaggerating but that was sort of the feeling wasn't it but now what have we seen in recent years those numbers have gone up and up and not only that younger brothers have been appointed on the governing body now i know what you're all thinking two new ones how old are they we know you're not googling now but you will be but you see we need to be careful about what we're thinking with regard to the number of anointed ones left on earth you see 19 years ago i was appointed on the governing body even i thought i was too young now they tell me i'm not so young anymore but do we see the point what does the bible actually tell us with regard to this well it doesn't say the number would just dwindle down to just having a few uh older ones left no the great crowd of other sheep will be judged on the basis of how they deal with

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  TonusOH

  I've said it before: if the GB had said in 1975 that the end was near, and that this meant it would not arrive for another ~55 years... my mother would not be a JW today. She probably would have laughed at them and walked away right then and there. But she has been waiting for "soon" since the late 60s.

  That is why they never stop telling the rank-and-file that the end is extremely close and almost upon us. They need people to invest enough that they won't leave later on.
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  2

  Should we trust con-men to tell us the TRUTH about themselves?

  by BoogerMan in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if god's self-appointed "slave" says so, it must be the right thing to do!.

  w15 9/1 p. 3 who are jehovah’s witnesses?

  - "would you like to receive truthful answers to your questions about jehovah’s witnesses?

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  TonusOH

  Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves, who publish this magazine.

  Really? So, I can get answers from any JW, since they publish the magazine?
  

  Wait, no, that isn't the case. If I ask a rank-and-file JW for answers, they will simply hand me another tract or booklet. The information is presented in paragraph form, with the answers given first and then the questions asked, so that we already know the answer... given by the WTS as informed by the GB.

  This has always been the WTS way. Give you the interpretation and allow no room for individual investigation or questions. You don't even have to ask the questions-- the magazine asks them for you!