Posts by TonusOH

21

Is Jesus a Created Being? Debate with a Pastor

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ro6q_osgkns?si=hyxualluhruwvjnb.

—colossians 1:15 from the nwt says it plain as day: “he is the image of the invisible god, the firstborn of all creation.” that’s not vague; it’s got a punch.

“firstborn” and “creation” sit side by side, and in greek, that second word is “ktisis,” which means the physical stuff—trees, stars, you name it.

TonusOH

JWs used to (still do??) get a basic list of talking points for overcoming objections or answering simple questions about the Bible. The Reasoning book compiled these by subject, giving the rank-and-file a way to respond to many different questions or objections, which gives them the confidence to 'defend' what they believe. They are also taught not to engage if the discussion becomes contentious or if they perceive that they are being preached to (ironic as that may sound).

Keep in mind that most people know about as much about their religion and texts as the average JW. I found most Christians that I encountered knew surprisingly little, so that even the surface-level preparation that I'd gotten from the WTS made me feel as if I had a wealth of knowledge compared to them. Many people are content to serve and worship without getting a more in-depth understanding of their religion. By that standard, many JWs are quite well prepared to have a short debate on almost any Bible subject.

3094

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

It doesn't surprise me in the least that he would have put the desires of his patrons ahead of his own family.

9

1 Thessalonians 5:3....Prophecy ?

by HereIam60 in

i've always had difficulty understanding how watch tower interprets 1 thessalonians 5:3 as prophetic of a future event - that the nations will unite in a (false) cry that they have achieved 'peace and security' which will signal the start of the great tribulation.

whenever i've read that passage i got the sense that it is simply stating a general principle... that when people are complacent and off-guard, thinking everything is o.k., peaceful and secure then sudden unexpected events hit them harder and they don't know what to do.

when i was first coming in (1980s) i well recall the "true peace and security" book that made a big deal about the un having declared 1986 'the international year of peace'.

TonusOH

It is like talking about famine or disease or natural disasters as signs of the end. These are things that happen frequently throughout human history, and continue to do so. The UN designated 1986 as the Year of Peace and Security. How much clearer could a sign get? And yet... nothing.

One can interpret it to mean that the end will come when it is least expected. In other words, when the nations are celebrating peace and security (ie, when they feel that things are going as well as can be hoped), that is when the end will be upon them. In other words, it's not necessarily a literal cry of "peace and security" as much as it is a sense of complacency.

The problem is, humanity has been so on edge, constantly predicting the end for centuries. It's as if we will never become complacent. So god might never get a chance to sneak up on us. The ultimate irony: our fervent desire for the end to begin might delay it forever...

11

King of the North / South predictions

by Gorb in

jw
friends

during my jw.org lifetime since 1970 (2008 we faded out of it all) i read and heared a lot of the king of the north and the south.. but about an aliance between the two kings, that was not a jw.org scenario, wasn't it?.

g..

TonusOH

ElderBerry: WT predictions always proved true

Is it Opposites Day or something???

14

PIMA is best so it’s not a shock to the system if the tower collapsed

by JohnR1975 in

i know most people here are totally out and that’s fine.. many these days are staying physically in for the social life and that is also fine.. i feel being fully mentally in is dangerous as it could be such a shock mentally if or should i say when the tower collapsed.. im sitting in the fence like so many others here.

mentally agnostic if god exists or not and if the bible is his word.. when i talk to people who are physically and mentally still in i can tell that they so need it to be true.

i’m worried for them when they wake up to the fact that they have been lied to 1914 wasn’t true 1975 wasn’t true 1999 wasn’t true and now here we are 2025 it’s all not true.

TonusOH

JohnR1975: Ita far as safer to be physically in for the amazing social life and the fact they are so well taken care of

I have to agree with the others: if you think JWs enjoy an amazing social life and are well taken care of, then you really need to get out and discover what it's like to have an actual social life and true personal and financial security. Most JWs are trapped in a kind of social hell that they have to pretend is normal so that they don't go insane.

3094

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

One problem he has is that his heart isn't in it anymore. And so, he doesn't have anything new to offer. I think he has the energy and motivation to make videos about himself, but he lacks charisma and he has nothing to say that would keep people coming back.

7

Top Jw YouTube channel

by Mit123 in

jw
friends

looks like panda tower has overtaken cedars with 116mil followers.

is he the top jw youtuber?.

TonusOH

Hasn't Evans bought large blocks of "subscribers" in the past? I suppose he can always buy his way back, if that is how he measures success. His video views have lagged behind those of a number of other JW channels for some time now, haven't they?

16

Depression and big pharma drugs

by Anonymous666 in

i'm going to drop a bomb shell here for all you who think you know something about depression.

most depression cases are being cause by the food and drug administration.

they are putting things in certain foods that they know will affect certain people especially those who have gluten problems.

TonusOH

I'm almost afraid to ask, but... how, exactly, does the FDA 'put things in food' and give people drugs that make them want more drugs?

23

In the past 24 hours, the world has been breaking into fragments. What will be the Outcome??

by liam in

new german chancellor merz has won the election.

trump congratulated his victory but the response was not what trump expected.

merz condemned america, saying that america seemed to be aligning with russia.. he also expressed doubts about nato’s future.. he is now advocating that germany must gain independence from usa.

TonusOH

Vidiot: So… what if “Make America Great Again” really means “Make America a Superpower Again”?

If there's one thing Trump knows, it is marketing. People argue over what is meant by "great" and whether the USA was ever great, depending on the metric used. Trump's whole marketing plan is to complain that politicians have gotten so complacent and corrupt that it has dragged the nation down, thus his plan to pull it out of that tailspin.

I never thought that he would really try to "drain the swamp." He admitted that he was a creature of that same swamp, after all. And I don't think he made an attempt at it in his first term. I think this is more of a revenge tour than a legitimate attempt at fixing our government structure, and I think the task is all but impossible. But I'd also love to see a forced shrinking of the federal government; having the curtain pulled back on at least some of the corruption that is wasting taxpayer money would be a bonus.

This all comes with the obvious caveat: anything that his administration finds that might get Republicans in trouble will almost certainly be ignored in favor of targeting the political left. He won't really drain the swamp as much as he will filter out some of the waste and corruption. And, depending on how things go in the next two/four years, any progress he manages to make might simply be unwound by the next administration.

23

In the past 24 hours, the world has been breaking into fragments. What will be the Outcome??

by liam in

new german chancellor merz has won the election.

trump congratulated his victory but the response was not what trump expected.

merz condemned america, saying that america seemed to be aligning with russia.. he also expressed doubts about nato’s future.. he is now advocating that germany must gain independence from usa.

TonusOH

I wouldn't say that we gave away billions to Ukraine (although there is the matter of the tens of billions that seem to have "disappeared"). The money might even be considered well-spent (again, except for any that was possibly stolen) if it helped to expose Russia's weaknesses and give them a bloody nose on the international stage (an injury that will feel a lot less painful if he gets what he wants from these negotiations, which seems likely).

Trump is taking advantage of Ukraine's (and the EU's) plight to get a favorable long-term deal out of it. The idea is that, if the USA has a vested (economic) interest in keeping it independent, it is worth it to Ukraine to agree to the deal. But if the deal does not include boots on the ground, it will remain very vulnerable to future Russian agression. If there is anything that shows us that Trump is not a politician, (or not a typical one, anyway) it's his willingness to make such baldly lopsided offers, knowing that there's a good chance he will get what he wants.

I'm curious how future administrations (especially Democrat administrations) will deal with all of these changes. But I'm in no rush to find out. There is one thing for sure: when Trump speaks of putting America first, he is doing so honestly and unapologetically. That's refreshing, to a degree.