Posts by Sunchild

6

Phantom Pain....

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i know i've been away for awhile (yeah, like that many people would notice *g*), but for the most part, i've been working on a site redesign.

if you're curious, you can see it at http://www.dreamsphere.net/ .

and for anyone aware of the reasons i went on hiatus in the first place, don't worry: i'm not mad at anyone.

Sunchild

Circe: *g* Cute.

Claudia, thanks for the compliment. :) And:

i feel as if i am destined to sit on a fence.

Hm. For me, it isn't so much that as feeling like I'll always be an outsider. An observer. Even if I'm in a group, I'm never really part of it.

Seeker:

There are times when it does feel lonely. But go back to that awful system that produces such awful persons? No thanks.

Do you remember that scene from "The Matrix" where the guy who turns traitor is having dinner in a fancy place with the agents? The one where he talks about knowing that the juicy, delicious steak he's eating doesn't really exist, and how ignorance is bliss? That's part of the feeling I'm trying to describe. I don't think it's really that uncommon for people who have left a given belief system, even if the feeling only lasts for a moment and the option it presents is never seriously entertained.

I know I can't go back to Christianity any more than you can, and whenever I see posts from people like our friend Rex, I remember why I don't even want to. But every now and then, in those moments when I feel a bit lonely, I just want to belong somewhere and not have to think so much. One of my moments of just being human.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

6

Phantom Pain....

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i know i've been away for awhile (yeah, like that many people would notice *g*), but for the most part, i've been working on a site redesign.

if you're curious, you can see it at http://www.dreamsphere.net/ .

and for anyone aware of the reasons i went on hiatus in the first place, don't worry: i'm not mad at anyone.

Sunchild

Hi, everyone. I know I've been away for awhile (yeah, like that many people would notice *g*), but for the most part, I've been working on a site redesign. If you're curious, you can see it at http://www.dreamsphere.net/ . And for anyone aware of the reasons I went on hiatus in the first place, don't worry: I'm not mad at anyone. Everyone is guilty of being human every once in awhile, and being mad at people takes up too much energy.

Anyway... there's something that's been on my mind every now and then. What I've written below is also an entry in my Weblog, and I thought it might be relevant for this board.

Phantom Pain....

Now and then, in some strange way, I think I miss Christianity. I don't know if it's so much a desire to return to Christian beliefs (I think that train pulled out a long time ago) as a kind of phantom pain that's left from no longer having all the answers and having to find them on my own. But there's more to it, too, something beyond the mere absence of certainty.... It feels more like a longing for something that I can't quite name.

On some level or another, I think I miss that sense of belonging. Yes, maybe that's what I'm trying to define. I can't change how I see things now without lying to myself, and I couldn't return to Christianity without undergoing a lot of strenuous mental gymnastics, trying to make the things I know mesh with the things I'd have to believe again. I would have to forget too many things, have to leave too much behind. But... at least I would fit in, at least in some respect. I've been a misfit all my life and gotten somewhat used to it. But deep down, in some strange way, some part of me still longs to be like everyone else, even if it's just an illusion.

In my particular part of the world, "Christian" means "normal", "accepted," and "morally good." It means having ready-made friends in a way, and having a group to belong to. And if you're known for being a "good Christian," there's instant admiration, too, and people have a nice, convenient way to think of you in a positive light. Instant love, even if it's from a distance. If you're a good non-Christian, though, it doesn't seem to count as much since people don't have a way to define you.

Has anyone else ever felt this way? Wishing every now and then that you could accept Christianity just for the sake of feeling less alone? It's an easy way out for someone like me, when you don't really know how to make friends but still want to feel loved by people.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

25

You Know's Seared Conscience

by Seeker in

jw
friends

[moving this to its own thread so as to avoid hijacking the original thread to a new topic.].

when i pointed out how you know was associating with apostates by being here, as the society has pointed out, he responded:.

my conscience doesn't bother me.

Sunchild

What's an agnostic tell a child about the death of a loved one or when a child asks, "what happens to someone when they die"?

Hm, I have a better question. What's a good Christian such as yourself supposed to tell a child when an unsaved loved one dies?

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

30

BEW's ..........Irrational Thoughts

by LadyBug in

jw
friends

i have been having some pretty irrational thoughts lately.. its only been 3 months since we decided it is not the "truth".

but sometimes i think we (my family) would have been better off if we had stayed inactive witnesses.

the strain affects the whole family.. sometimes it feels like my whole world has fallen apart.

Sunchild

{{{BEW}}}

Like Kent said, just take your time. Read things. Write things. Talk to people. Be introspective. Draw pictures if you like. Just spend some time exploring, and don't worry if the answers don't come right away, or even if they don't come at all. One of the most important things you can learn in life is to be comfortable with the fact that you don't have all the answers, and that you never will. Anyone who claims to know it all is lying to himself and lying to you.

From the sound of it, though, quite a spiritual void has been left behind for you. Use this to your advantage. Is there any spiritual path you were curious about, but didn't dare explore while you were a JW? Here's your chance! Is there a certain philosophy that you've heard about, but don't know much about? You can read up on it now! Read, learn, experiment, find what works for you and throw out the stuff that doesn't! You have that power now. I suspect that all of the answers you need -- perhaps not all the answers you want, but all of the answers that you need -- are right inside of you if you take the time to look for them. And don't let other people force their answers on you, no matter how certain or knowledgeable they seem. Never underestimate the value of your own intuition.

And above all else, don't worry so much about "getting there." I've found so far that journey itself is quite a worthy adventure.

All the best,

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

2

To Sunchild re: secular spirituality message

by Introspection in

jw
friends

hi rochelle,.

i had said in a previous message:.

it doesn't mean that sitting around doing nothing or doing anything is as spiritual as it gets.. .

Sunchild

Maybe it's just because I haven't eaten in about seven hours and my mind is still half on the pizza that's warming in the oven, but I really don't think I see your point. Like I already told you, my own worldview doesn't coincide 100% with the Secular Spirituality site, and more than that, I also said tht I was just presenting options. And I never made any claim that the site's owner was the only person in the world who held such views. If s/he were, s/he wouldn't have any books or sites to recommend.

I really don't get why you're so concerened with the external trappings of spiritual practices. I enjoy rituals myself, and apparently, the site's author thinks they're a good idea, too. But at the same time, I know that not everyone enjoys the kinds of rituals I do, and that not everyone feels drawn to ritual at all.

You see to me I just hear the message "I don't believe in God anymore but I'm still a spiritual person", and my reaction is "Okay. And..?"

If you don't get it, I probably can't explain it to you, and it's more than likely not something that's for you. As I said once before, spirituality is a very personal, individual thing; it doesn't mean the same thing to all people. Just because you can't relate to it personally doesn't mean that it's impossible or invalid.

You might wonder what all this has to do with the ideas posed at the secular spirituality website, well as the author of those articles says, it is a faith based on reason. What appears reasonable varies with individuals, and you may be a smart person but be biased in some way, or even if you're unbiased in what you choose as part of your belief/spiritual practice you may not have all the facts.

I'm not an atheist, so I definitely wasn't looking for a way to "validate" spiritual atheism. I just thought this site presented a really neat way of looking that things that some people here might find useful. What's so bad about presenting options? Does everyone HAVE to think the same? I am a Pagan, though, mostly Wiccan but also a few other things thrown in.

What do you, personally, believe? Do you believe in some sort of deity, and if so, which form? Maybe if you explained that to me, I could understand where you're coming from a bit better.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

48

SUMMER,MAKING TIME 4 FUN/RELAXATION

by Tina in

jw
friends

do we,can we,make time for ourselves?.

many of us exiting the wts were limited and restricted regarding our free time/vacation activities.most activities didn't meet with wts approval for various 'reasons'.

"worldly associations,is it 'wholesome'?

Sunchild

So, Rochelle, (and oh, btw, yes, you are most generous. Thank you...)

Hee. ^_^

Of course? You say "of course"? Is winning easy or are you just good? And, uh.... "six hours"? It takes six hours to play ONE game?

*g* Winning ISN'T easy, but I'm pretty good at roleplaying games. And Xenogears takes a total of about 45-70 hours to finish, depending on how high you get your experience levels, how many sidequests you take, how lost you get, etc.

Hmmm... I think I've heard of this god...

Heh, haven't we all.

Take care,

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

48

SUMMER,MAKING TIME 4 FUN/RELAXATION

by Tina in

jw
friends

do we,can we,make time for ourselves?.

many of us exiting the wts were limited and restricted regarding our free time/vacation activities.most activities didn't meet with wts approval for various 'reasons'.

"worldly associations,is it 'wholesome'?

Sunchild

Hi, Teejay! You wanted me to answer this, therefore I took the time to dig it up. Aren't I generous?

Have you ever gotten close ... to killing God, I mean?

Of course. I've beaten Xenogears once already, and I'm about six hours away from doing it again.

If you have had God under your spear, so to speak, DID you do it?

The game makes that relatively easy, 'cause this particular God is a mindless, cruel, selfish monster that would destroy humanity if it were allowed to keep living.

If you did, how did you sleep that night? Did He visit you in your dreams?

Easily, and no. In that order.

And if you're actually asking me about my relationship with the Christian God, my answers would be about the same.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

9

Fascinating site: Secular Spirituality

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i ran across this site by accident last night.

if you're not too attached to the bible and are willing to keep an open mind, you might want to check it out: http://www.secularspirituality.org/index.html.

taken from the site's index page:.

Sunchild

While we may not believe in an apocalyptic salvation earned by an accumulation of brownie points with God, it doesn't mean that sitting around doing nothing or doing anything is as spiritual as it gets.

Have you read the articles on the site? That isn't the point that's made at all. The general idea seems to be that you don't need to believe in a being called "God" to reach for your own higher self and better the world around you. If you haven't read it, you might want to start here, with the article "Spirituality Without Supernaturalism": http://www.secularspirituality.org/spirituality/spirituality.html

I think it's already been expressed on this board that the supernatural is only an aspect of nature that we don't understand yet.

I know. I'm the one who expressed it.

It seems to me it then follows that what is not agreed upon is simply the explanation or understanding of things which might be considered supernatural, though there are phenomena we don't understand. We might deny superstitious explanations for them, but it would be foolish to deny the existence of the phenomenon itself.

I can't say that my own worldview coincides 100% with that of the site's author. But that doesn't negate the fact that s/he has presented some very interesting ideas, and I'm all for making new possibilities available to people in their search for themselves.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

9

Fascinating site: Secular Spirituality

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i ran across this site by accident last night.

if you're not too attached to the bible and are willing to keep an open mind, you might want to check it out: http://www.secularspirituality.org/index.html.

taken from the site's index page:.

Sunchild

I ran across this site by accident last night. If you're not too attached to the Bible and are willing to keep an open mind, you might want to check it out: http://www.secularspirituality.org/index.html

Taken from the site's index page:

Secular Spirituality strives to be a supportive and informative resource for people who are seeking to cultivate a nontheistic, Earth-based spirituality. Opening to and embracing and celebrating this life in this world, we cease the quest for transcendence and invest ourselves wholeheartedly in the here and now, to the benefit of ourselves and our world.
Whether you call yourself an atheist, agnostic, nontheist, pantheist, pagan, humanist, or what-have-you, may you find in these pages healing and inspiration for cultivating a positive and fulfilling life in this holy world.

There are also useful links and resources for people who are recovering from Fundamentalism, very much worth looking at.

Enjoy!

*Rochelle.
(Edited to add last note.)
---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

42

Atheists at it again

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

the site changed but the atheist proseletyzing continues.

isn't it odd how our two norwigs compliment each other in their attacks on god and the bible?

well, simon, you now have the honor of hosting a platform for the true apostates to spew their anti-god venom.. this kind of thing is sadly typical of those who leave the wts.

Sunchild

Hi, Francoise.

You're Wiccan! GOOD WORK! That is a beautiful philosophy.

True enough, though I'm not exactly Wiccan. I've found that a lot of Wiccan ideals resonate with my own personal truth, and I usually do tell people I practice Wicca just because it's less troublesome than simply telling them I'm a Witch. But since I also have my own take on certain things, would never join a coven, and don't feel I've finished my spiritual exploration, I'm actually a rather eclectic Neopagan Witch, not a Wiccan in particular.

It's too bad that after the Catholic Church got done with Wicca there were none left to write the histories of the mass slaughters of those innocent, beautiful people; so the Papists wrote it themselves. And of course, they made Wiccans out to be monsters - unlike their own murdering selves.

As JanH (who REALLY needs to loosen up) mentioned in his usual charming fashion, there was no organized religion called Wicca back in those days. But whether or not healers and users of magic called themselves Wiccans back then, it is... unfortunate that so many had to suffer torture and death because of a bunch of misguided zealots.

Don't let anyone know. Those crazy bastards are out to get ya! Especially the Southern Baptists. They find out you're Wiccan and they'll blow up your shit for you.

*g* Luckily for me, I live in a liberal college town. Everyone's pretty mellow out here, and Fundies are NOT popular. At the same time, though, I do know that there are some weirdoes out there who take Exodus 22:18 seriously. ("Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live....") Let's just say I wouldn't wear a pentacle in public if I went back to Mount Morris.

Give my regards to The All.

Heh, will do.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."