Posts by Apognophos

37

Fictious "Universal Sovereignty" Issue Proposed By Watchtower Corporation Is Idiotic

by frankiespeakin in

ok so a big part of the wt corporation ideological structure is the invention of the issue before all creation being "universal sovereignty".. the story goes like this very basically:.

for untold years jehovah's soverneignty was never challenged, then after so many millions of years jehovahs started his earthly creation with adam&eve being the culmination of that work.

soon afterwards satan seduces eve to disobey jehovah and thus we have the very first act of disobedience satan slanders god by telling eve god is selfish as to the reason he forbids eating this other wise nice looking fruit adam joins his wife in the rebellion.. god in his infinite wisdom allows this rebellion because this was a challenge to his sovereingty and so he is allowing a reasonable amount of time to let mankind and angels see for themselves that his rulership is better that satan's.. so basically it is like a bet he has with satan or who's rulership is best, and he's allowing time to prove his is far superior.. well if you look at it logically it don't add up.. 1. if god is going to allow satan to prove his point about who's rulership is better why is he alway interfereing and interveining that's unfair.. 2. god goes on killing sprees of people man women and chilldren (not very smart for some trying to prove his rulership is better for people to follow.. 3. god show himself to be jealous (not a good trait for a ruler to endear himself to people).. 4. god's scare people to except his ruler ship.. and i have even more reason to show the whole idea is a made up sham..

Apognophos

He permitted men to undergo a test by Satan, before all the universe.

If I were one of the angels observing this challenge, I don't think I'd be impressed by God's decision to let imperfect man try to rule himself under Satan's influence for 6000+ years. I think I'd be like, "Um, God, you know what? It's okay, really. Me and the other guys have been talking, and Satan's totally being an ass. Really, just go ahead and destroy him. I don't think there's any need to make man, animal and planet suffer for millennia to make your point." Then again, I wasn't there. Maybe the angels are asses too.

31

I am in LOV.....I mean LIKE!!!

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

hi alll!

well, i'm good!.

i haven't been to the hall in like 5 months.

Apognophos

I'd be just a tad concerned that he might have a flip-flop about the Witnesses and want to go back some day. But you know him and we don't, so I have no idea how firmly he believes it is not the truth. If you're not 100% sure that he is 100% that it's not the truth, if you think there might be some shred of doubt remaining in him ("What if they're right and Armageddon is coming?"), then I suggest asking him to make some kind of definitive declaration. In other words, ask him to declare, "I am confident that Witnesses don't have the truth, and here is why: ...". Don't help him. Even challenge him a little if you feel like it ("Yes, but did the Witnesses predict 1914?", etc.).

Also, make sure that if his family started shunning him, he wouldn't fake being a Witness just to get back in their good graces (does he make a living and live independently, or might he still need financial/emotional support from family?). His "faking it" won't necessarily harm your future relationship, but the danger is that he will be spending time under the influence of the congregation. If he's not rock-solid in his beliefs, they could suck him in. But as I said, maybe you know him well enough to know that this can't possibly happen.

21

Understanding the futility of TRUE and NOT TRUE as assertions of fact

by Terry in

the following is a sentence.. the sentence contains an assertion of fact.. here is the sentence: .

"this statement is not true.".

is it a statement of fact?.

Apognophos

I was resisting the urge to bring up Gödel, but someone else did it for me. Gödel constructed a statement using logic that is the rough equivalent of saying, "This sentence is false." You can read more here. His work on logic implied that there will always be some assumptions underlying what we consider to be true or logical.

But I think the important point to take away is, as Terry says, that asserting something is "true" is not an effective way of communicating. This takes me back to the thread by Minimus that got pretty long, where my point was that we should not be dogmatic about our beliefs. We can't be 100% certain about anything, so we might as well tolerate each other and speak respectfully, avoiding absolutes when possible.

Of course, as Witnesses, we were generally anything but respectful of others' beliefs, so most of us have a bad habit that we have to lose in order to embrace this new way of thinking.

50

Girl scout cookies are demonized

by Gojira_101 in

jw
friends

okay so i think it might be the concussion making me go on this rant...not too sure.. the girl scouts started selling their cookies yesterday and for the first time in my life i will be ordering cookies.....i mean wtf is so wrong with ordering cookies from them?

i love the thin mint's and guess what?

you can only buy them from girl scouts!!!!!!.

Apognophos

This is going to start some kind of JW urban legend about Keeber's cookies being made with blood products, isn't it?

53

A recent discussion that had me stumped!

by Terry in

okay--first off, i wasn't involved in the following conversation; i was eavesdropping!.

you know how it is when you happen to be in a public place.

you are minding your own business until you're not minding your own business.

Apognophos

Yes, essentially it comes down to what harms society, versus what simply doesn't. Ed Gein arguably wasn't choosing to do anything wrong either; he just did what came naturally to him (note: don't read about Ed Gein unless you have a strong stomach). He deserved to be locked up so he couldn't cause harm to others, even though he was born that way.

But what if someone is born with the insatiable desire to stick bananas in their ears? Then we should let them, right? We don't argue that it's an unnatural use of fruit or that it endangers the traditions of people who like to eat bananas.

In short, the father didn't have any good points, he was just taught to mask his fear of different people by framing their lifestyle as dangerous to societal traditions.

55

Anyone noticed a curiosity on the Memorial Invitation for 2013 ?

by EdenOne in

i can't scan the memorial invitation for 2013, but i was looking at it today and noticed something curious on the front drawing.. we have jesus as the central figure of the composition.

to his right and bottom, a large crown, in colour, of shiny happy people of diverse origins.. separated from this by the figure of jesus, is another group, a much smaller one, on the left and as if ascending to the top, and grayed.. clearly portrayed in this group is the face of ct russell and apparently william tyndale.

but then, also sarah and abraham and other personalities of the ot seem to be represented there.

Apognophos

Yes, once again, the people on the left don't seem to be the anointed, but rather pre-1919 faithful Christians.

128

Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

by mP in

ive had many chats with tec and shes always fun but i must disagree with her angle on jesus and the mosaic law.

she always claims that jesus repealed the law.

ive asked for many times and she has yet to give the exact quote.. perhaps the most damning scripture for tec and friends is mat 5:18 where jesus unequivacably says the laws is perfect and will last forever.

Apognophos

This is all great but it doesnt change Jesus position on slavery, rape, pedophilia and the mosaic law.

This argument is beyond ridiculous. The principles that Jesus espoused, particularly those dealing with love, obviously make it clear that abuse of children (pedophilia) and rape are serious sins. To insist that every bad act needed to be explicitly condemned by Jesus reeks of either being intentionally difficult, or failing to grasp the underlying point of Jesus' parable of the good Samaritan.

100

JW bumper stickers

by innerpeace in

jw
friends

so my husband (who was never a jw) saw a christian bumper sticker today and asked me if the witnesses have any.

i said no (not that i know of anyway) so here are a few he came up with.. 'honk if you're a zombie'.

'my other car is noah's ark'.

Apognophos

Haha, nice topic. And vajeni82 is good at this.

10

Changed Writings

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

changed writings.. .

source : wt quotes site.

thy kingdom come (studies in the scriptures vol.3) (1908) p.228 .

Apognophos

Marking.

16

How Could Jesus Be A Perfect Human When...?

by OneStepOut93 in

how could jesus have been a perfect human on earth if he was born from mary?

doesn't thewatchtower believe since we are all sons and daughters of adam and eve, that we are all genetically imperfect?

so if mary also came from adam and eve like the rest of us but gave birth to jesus then wouldn't jesus have been born imperfectlike the rest of us?.

Apognophos

It's a good question, OSO93. In fact, some religious thinkers a long time ago decided that the only way that an imperfect woman could have a perfect child was if she herself was born sinless. This is the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception which is so central to Catholic teachings.