As I said, if true, this is more likely to be used by the Society as a cautionary example on why we shouldn't leave the premises between sessions. "This poor young brother just wanted a Subway sandwich, but instead he got railroaded! The Governing Body loves us and wants us to be safe! They tell us these things for a reason, so let's heed their instructions!"
Apognophos
JoinedPosts by Apognophos
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92
Young man walks out of Glasgow convention and commits suicide
by jambon1 inlast weekend.
so unbelievably sad.
rip.
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14
Where in the Bible does it talk about an earthly Paradise as the JW's teach, and why only the JW's will be there?
by slam in -
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Apognophos
They don't teach that only JWs will survive armageddon but they do.
Yes, this much is implied. But don't forget the resurrection of the "righteous and unrighteous". The JW teaching is that all who died in the past and were not "wicked" (as distinct from "unrighteous") will be given a chance to gain everlasting life.
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On Jerkhovas Witlesses, Kingdumb Hells, Filthful & Discreet Slavebugger and Pio-sneering . .
by nicolaou ini detest this type of posting.
it's only my opinion of course and so long as forum rules aren't breached we're all free to express ourselves as we see fit.
doesn't mean i have to like it though.. honestly, can't you make your point without this kind of infantile name calling?
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Apognophos
And, where does this political correctness stop? [...] do we start banning speech against Christians? [...] Do we become a pro-Christian forum[?]
That's a classic "slippery slope" fallacy, WTWizard. Nobody said that you can't speak against Christian beliefs. The question nicolaou raised was, "Can't you make your point without this kind of infantile name calling?" English has somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 words; there's lots of ways to express yourself politely yet firmly that won't scare away a Witness taking their first uncertain steps outside the Society's information control.
But I cannot disagree with you when you indicate that Simon seems to be fine with things the way are, or else he would make it clear that name-calling falls under rule #1 ("provoking") or #2 (hatred against religion). So in an absence of any moderators taking action to the contrary, I suppose I have to accept that this is the way the community is.
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Who says Perfect Humans were created, [evolved] to live forever? WT does*, genesis does not. do you?
by prologos inthe only reference to living forever, (or indefinitely long) in the genesis 2&3 account, is in reference to the "tree of life".
gen 3:22 "--eat and live to time indefinite--".
this tree must have been hard to find because wt writers opined that eventually, in their faithful course, a&e would be led to that allowed tree to gain everlasting life's symbolic confirmation.. therefore as the ancients accidentally & correctly wrote, humans did not have inherent everlasting life, but it was gained through diet.
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Apognophos
Yes, the account definitely indicates that Adam and Eve would need to eat the tree of life's fruit in order to live forever. I would really like to hear a Witness try to explain this one. The ancient Jews did not imagine that humans could live forever naturally, as everything around them aged and died just like they did. Only divine intervention could halt the aging process, e.g. a magical tree.
My contention, personally, is that the story means to say that the fruit was something that needed to be eaten from continually to sustain their life, rather than a "one bite and you're immortal" kind of deal. This detail is not explained in the story, and ultimately it's unimportant. What we do know is that the cherubim and flaming sword were placed to "guard the way to the tree of life", not to ban Adam and Eve from the Garden as a whole (Gen. 3:24). This throws quite the monkey wrench into a theology that teaches that perfect man was immortal until his sin made him mortal.
But we can also go further and say that the word "perfection" is not found in this account either. It's true that man was better off before the fall, but the absolute concept of perfection seems to have been invented by Christian thinkers millennia later to reconcile the notion of a perfect God and imperfect creation (and we can also plainly see from the Bible's early accounts of Yahweh that the concept of a perfect God was also a later invention! One thing led to another).
All that the Eden story was intended to explain was:
- Why childbirth is so difficult, painful, and in former times often deadly, for human females when it's quite easy for animals (now we know the answer is the strong evolutionary pressure to develop larger brains while retaining bipedalism, which requires narrow hips -- both very desirable traits for our species).
- Why cultivating crops is so hard (it just is; the point of the story was that God seemed to have to account for why he made us to live by the "sweat of our brow" when he could have made life easier, the answer was that we did something wrong to deserve this life; well, our forefather and foremother did).
- Why people wear clothes, unlike animals (because we gained the knowledge of good and evil and became ashamed... this part is still kind of ambiguous, at least to me).
- Why men are in charge (God cursed the woman for her insolence by giving her a craving for the man, thus allowing herself to be dominated by him; this taken with the previous point implies that sexuality itself is a kind of evil knowledge, which in turn implies that the ancient writer thought that man ought to be higher in his mentality than the mere animals who underwent rutting and estrus).
- Why snakes don't got legs (they fell off due to a curse).
Any deeper meanings pertaining to absolute concepts like "perfection" and "immortality" are just eisegesis.
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Seeing the name "Jehovah" was a catholic invention of the 13th century and was popularised by Apostates because of its usage,"Aid Book",will new light reveal another name in the future ? Maybe Yahweh ?
by smiddy inthe witnesses say the apostacy took place after the last of the apostles died off , the name jehovah was invented by a catholic monk in the 13th century and because of its popularity among christendom (apostates ) it became acceptable.
and they have adopted it ?.
are the jehovahs witnesses following along with apostacy ?
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Apognophos
Yes, this is a serious case of imagining a scandal where there isn't one.
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Disfellowshiping: Why the Terror?
by Cold Steel inthe more i read about ritual shunning and disfellowshiping in the society, the more i wonder how the governing body and elders have pulled the proverbial wool over the eyes of the congregation.
first, the society doesnt consider itself a church (unlike the ancient christians, who did consider themselves to be part of a church).
yet, like other sectarians, they have their hands out for contributions and exercise immense power over their members.
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Apognophos
according to the Governing Body, the Society isn’t a church
This is just a semantic game that has no bearing on their claimed authority. The Society rejected Catholic terminology for image reasons, but they are still a church and implicitly admit this. That's because "church" means "congregation". When Witnesses make out checks to the Society, they write them to "Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses". Whether the Witnesses call themselves a church, society, fellowship, or a worldwide congregation, they are still an ecclesiastical body that has the power to excommunicate members. Whether they follow in the footsteps of the early Christians is a question of what they preach and practice, not the word they use in English to refer to themselves.
Read this WT article to see how the Society views the word "church" and how they apply it to themselves: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102001164?q=church&p=par.
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Looking for advice
by Liveandlearn inhello, i've finally been approved here so it's time for my first post.
i got disfellowshipped a few months ago as i was unrepentant in my judicial.
i'd lived with a situtation for a long time.
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Apognophos
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the elders were a little suspicious of you during reinstatement, considering you were "unrepentant" leading up to your disfellowshipping. The elders are probably fully aware that some people just want back in to avoid the shun gun.
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"The Nice Girl Syndrome", a book on Stop Being Manipulated and Abused
by LoisLane looking for Superman in"the nice girl syndrome" a 245 page book by beverly engel.
10 steps to empowering yourself and ending abuse.. .
the cover states: stop being manipulated and abused and start standing up for yourself.. the back cover states: are you too nice for your own good?.
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Apognophos
Oh, damn it. I wrote a long post and it got deleted because the forum doesn't allow Command-arrow key to be used for selecting text, so I accidentally backed up in my browser while editing the post I was making. Er, one more time, I guess.
Yes, I can relate to this topic, because I've always tended to be a doormat. I feel awful when I offend people even a little, so I prefer to just go along with whatever they want from me. But as I move into adulthood, I've realized that part of my doormat-ness comes from being raised a Witness, where we're expected to tolerate others' foibles and never set boundaries. I've discovered that, when I'm really being pushed around by a certain Witness, if I put my foot down and demand a little respect, they will back down quickly out of surprise. This is rather satisfying for me after all, even if it causes a little offense in the process.
You mentioned, Lois, that the GB are living the life they want to live now. I don't think I would find their life very fulfilling, but I suppose it's quite enjoyable for them to sit around a table in suits and talk about their latest insights into the Bible, knowing that anything they agree on will get published to the eager rank and file members. I wonder if they have any plans for the new world. I'd imagine not, as they are planning on being in heaven, and they have no idea what they'll be doing there. Whereas we used to think about all the fun, rewarding earthly pursuits that we were looking forward to trying in paradise, their life is entirely centered on abstract, intangible concepts, disconnected entirely from most people's reality. It's scary that I've allowed myself to be led by these people for so many years!
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Young man walks out of Glasgow convention and commits suicide
by jambon1 inlast weekend.
so unbelievably sad.
rip.
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Apognophos
Thanks for the clarification, bigmac. I guess this means that the Society can't use this as a cautionary example about why we shouldn't leave the session during lunch, after all.
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Memorial Hell
by thecrushed intoday has been one of the most aganizing days since i woke up.
my family has been pressuring me to show up at the memorial for the past week.
it became very intense today with my dad texting me constantly to get me to confirm and when i didn't answer he would call my wife and then she would constantly nag me to answer my dad and so on and so forth.
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Apognophos
Well, soft-pedal the atheism, then :) One thing at a time. You can still think and talk like a Witness, right? The Witness beliefs fall down on their own, apart from a person's belief or non-belief in God, which is why so many ex-JWs here are still religious. Most of what villagegirl mentioned does not require you to be a theist in order to convey to someone else.