Posts by Gamaliel

26

Can Josephus be trusted?

by Pleasuredome in

the works of josephus have been used to back up the gosples, but how can we be sure that those works of josephus wasn't tampered with by the vatican?

this is something i hadn't looked into before and i found this site which raised a few questions about the josephus texts.. http://www.askwhy.co.uk/awmob/awpaul/chr210mancensoringjosephus.html.

has anyone done any research on this?

I think your between-the-lines interest in Josephus would prove interesting if you have more to share or point us to. It is very difficult to read Josephus without wondering whether or how he is twisting his sources to compromise textual contradictions or create a version that fits somewhere between a loyalty to Jewish tradition and Roman tradition. (By tradition, I include historical documentation and references.) I see a very conflicted person, torn between loyalties.

By the way, Josephus' indications along with Luke (who may have been using Josphus or equivalent sources,) might indicate a life of Jesus closer to 6 BC through early or mid-20's AD. Apparently (to me) most of the Gospels intended a date closer to 29 or 30 for the crucifiction, but they were written so far after the facts that a few years before (or even after) wouldn't have been impossible, in which case the more accepted dates for Herod's death or Quirinius' census and an earlier Roman dating for Pilate could also work out. Curiously, John who is the most clear of all the Gospels about presenting a specific timespan for Jesus' ministry has a crowd guessing Jesus age at closer to 50 rather than closer to 30. I guess something must have been taking a toll on that perfect body.

Gamaliel

10

Witnessing in Prisons.....

by razorMind in

jw
friends

.

i'm just curious about this, and the prison baptisms---never knew much about it.

thanks in advance.

Gamaliel

Even baptisms were few and far between, but in cases I knew of they were allowed a special dispensation by the prison to come out with a guard for the occasion, not baptized in the prison. I never knew of any that progressed far enough to be appointed an elder (not in the US anyway). Anything is possible but I can't figure how they'd get around the "blameless/beyond reproach" criterion while still serving their term. I guess there are still cases in some countries where elders have been imprisoned for their faith or some crime where the JWs didn't agree with the courts, and they are still recognized as elders. I didn't know of any "congregations" in prisons, just regular meetings given for their benefit.

I knew of some JWs who had committed crimes, but they got disfellowshipped very quickly before being sent to prison, to keep these statistics down.

Gamaliel

10

Witnessing in Prisons.....

by razorMind in

jw
friends

.

i'm just curious about this, and the prison baptisms---never knew much about it.

thanks in advance.

Gamaliel

I did that for a couple years in Jeff City, MO. We'd go in a group and conduct combined Bible Studies and sometimes the equivalent of full meetings in the maximum security prison. I also had a few studies in the Intermediate Security Prison where a couple of us would walk with a few prisoners with almost no guards in sight to their chapel and conduct the studies there. For a quite a few months we would conduct them in the visiting room, but most of the other prisoners with visiting girlfriends were constantly getting away with various kinds of sex at/on/under the adjacent tables and it was a little distracting.

Gamaliel

28

I am having seizures.

by avishai in

jw
friends

i hope i am not sounding like a whiner.

i just started having them in earnest a few weeks ago, & have had funny little tremors for some time.

i am going to the neurologist on monday, & want to get on disability, because working @ a group home w/ severely emotionally disturbed kids gets me hit in the head a lot, which can cause adult onset epilepsy.

Gamaliel

I don't know much about them, but obviously you are doing the right thing having them checked out by a neurologists. One of my good friends at work, a true genius with a very high IQ, had a couple inexplicable siezures a couple years ago. They never came back though, and she's working normally long hours ever since.

Gook luck.

Gamaliel

37

micheal the archangel

by trinity4life in

.

i have not found one jehovahs witness who could show me in the bible where jesus is refered to as micheal the archangel or that you could draw such a conclusion.

if anyone is willing to discuss this topic with me i would greatly appriciate it.

Gamaliel

Neon,

Makes sense. So when 1 John 5 speaks of all who are begotten of God, those humans share in the nature of God. And then, James 1: " 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created." implying that Christians can become the "Firstborn" through the word of truth.

I am seeing a lot more consistency on this subject through the book of John, Hebrews and James now too, thanks to some verses being thrown at me lately. (I'm not a believer myself, just very interested in what the Bible writers believed.)

Gamaliel

124

Jehovah's Witnesses asking woman to pay legal costs in sexual abuse lawsuit

by ignored_one in

http://canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20030723/cpn/20587021&cachetime=15 .

jehovah's witnesses asking woman to pay legal costs in sexual abuse lawsuit.

toronto (cp) - a woman who received $5,000 in damages after accusing the canadian wing of the jehovah's witnesses of negligence over their handling of allegations of sexual abuse is being asked to pay for part of the religious group's legal costs in the case.

Gamaliel

Newsday (NYC/LI) has a huge two-page spread embarassing the Catholic pedophile protection today. Newsday's circulation is a couple million readers. The excess on the Catholics is a perfect excuse to point them to a case on the JWs in the interests of fair coverage. Is a final judgment on the case expected by Molloy soon, or is the WTS payment request expected to drag out?

I need to know whether to point them North now or if it might be better to wait until a final outcome goes more clearly against the WTS.

Gamaliel

26

Can Josephus be trusted?

by Pleasuredome in

the works of josephus have been used to back up the gosples, but how can we be sure that those works of josephus wasn't tampered with by the vatican?

this is something i hadn't looked into before and i found this site which raised a few questions about the josephus texts.. http://www.askwhy.co.uk/awmob/awpaul/chr210mancensoringjosephus.html.

has anyone done any research on this?

Gamaliel

I've finished reading his complete works. Josephus himself seems to have had some loyalty issues of his own, and he also seems to have made the most of his opportunistic nature through the opportunities the Romans granted him to write about Jewish history. All in all, his work is very valuable, as ancient "historians" go.

Those couple of passages that reference Jesus and James are very curious. Since those passages provide a small internal contradiction in Josephus' writings, most scholars now think that either one or both were probably added later, or more likely slightly edited, at least in the primary Jesus passage. There is some evidence that a "less generous" Jesus passage was already there, and it's therefore hard to figure out just how much was added and what was there originally. "If he can even be called a man" is typically considered spurious by all new scholars for the last 100 years. But it's mostly conjecture, common sense, and guessing. It's been done to death on several Websites.

If an addition had been made to be give a more generous reference to Jesus, we can be very glad, it's what would have saved the entire set of books from certain destruction by the Christians. (Some of the early Church Fathers who were very proud of their book-burning capabilities.)

There's another angle, too: that it's not impossible that Josephus added the complimentary phrases about Jesus as a way to explain the current beliefs about Jesus that had already reached Rome very early in the 2nd century. It doesn't mean that he, Josephus, believed them.

Gamaliel

15

Photos released for: Psychological Warfare?

by sf in

foxnews just stated that part of the release was "for psychological warfare".. if that is the case then the release will have the same, if not worse, psychological ramifications on u.s. children too?.

there is no way i want my child viewing this mindphuck bullkrap!!.

bush wants usa to see this...to make it clear....that if you go against him and his 'laws', you will too be 'deadmeat', as viewed in these photos.. this is sick.

Gamaliel

I don't think most terrorist organizations can resist showing the pictures of what they have done, no matter what laws they claim to agree with.

Gamaliel

17

Clinton on WMD flap: 'Everybody makes mistakes'

by Yizuman in

bill clinton on bush uranium line: 'everybody makes mistakes' former president accepts explanation on state of the union

wednesday, july 23, 2003 posted: 1:31 pm edt (1731 gmt).

washington (cnn) -- the white house, attacked by critics for a now-retracted line about iraq seeking uranium from africa in president bush's state of the union address, has gotten some surprising support from former president clinton.. "i thought the white house did the right thing in just saying 'we probably shouldn't have said that,' " clinton told cnn's larry king in a phone interview tuesday evening.

Gamaliel

I understand your sarcasm, dubla, but have you read any of the documentation from that Jewish, communist, linguist who teaches at MIT? (Chomsky) I've started reading some of his work, and I understand why his evidence is considered too unassailable for two-sided debates (TV, Internet, etc). He always seems to make use of the evidence already admitted and documented directly from the faction he is exposing. In other words, if he says something against Clinton, Clinton would have to say he was lying if he wanted to defend himself. Same with Bush.

If I am to believe Chomsky, then Clinton and Bush had pretty much the same agenda when it comes to war and the policy in the Middle East. The big trick of the presidency is to do the same thing the other party would do, but pretend you are doing it differently. I haven't read his take on the Middle East yet, but from the Reagan/Bush I/Clinton documentation he's exposed already about our foreign policy in many other countries, I won't be surprised at much of anything now.

As impossible as it seems that certain people would change their beliefs, I'd wager that several of the most vocal political arguers on this forum would actually change their tune if they read Chomsky's documentation (aka CIA documentation, NSA documtation, etc).

Gamaliel

17

Clinton on WMD flap: 'Everybody makes mistakes'

by Yizuman in

bill clinton on bush uranium line: 'everybody makes mistakes' former president accepts explanation on state of the union

wednesday, july 23, 2003 posted: 1:31 pm edt (1731 gmt).

washington (cnn) -- the white house, attacked by critics for a now-retracted line about iraq seeking uranium from africa in president bush's state of the union address, has gotten some surprising support from former president clinton.. "i thought the white house did the right thing in just saying 'we probably shouldn't have said that,' " clinton told cnn's larry king in a phone interview tuesday evening.

Gamaliel

We tend to find out how good a president really was many years after they are out after secret documents get old enough or legal enough to publicize without hurting national security.

So far, these documents have always given evidence that most of our presidents since day 1 have been war criminals. Funny thing is, some of the President's I had heard were the worst as I was growing up have turned out to be fairly conscientious. Has anyone been listening to the LBJ White House tapes (recorded phone conversations) they've been playing on C-SPAN 3 on several Cable company networks?

There's no way to tell why or even if Clinton sees this answer as moderating the Dem's position, but I would trust that he knows he was guilty of the same and it might not be too bright at the moment to use up anti-Republican ammo until closer to the election. When we're tired of it, it won't have the same effectiveness, and the Dem's will need effective ammo when it's slinging in both directions.

Gamaliel