terraly

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Posts by terraly

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  41

  back to basics

  by cnn77 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as soeone raised in the truth my whole life i am struggling with a basic doctrinal issue.

  the issue has to do with universal sovreignty and the ransom sacrifice.

  let me try to illustrate by way of analogy:.

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  terraly

  The Witness idea that it was all some sort of bet with Satan to prove Jehovah's sovereignty is rather unique to them.

  Furthermore, I think your analogy is a little bit misleading- since it makes the potential fault a trivial one. Imagine instead that you choose to have kids, knowing that someday you might have to give your life for one of them. Let's pretend that you're very smart so you even know that you will one day have to give your life for your kid. But hey, you might still be willing to do it- if you could also see how great it would be to raise a child, you might be willing to pay that price.

  Um, this isn't exactly to defend the ransom doctrine. Afterall, it sort of assumes a trinitarian view point (the notion of self-sacrifice is much more palatable then sending someone else to die). Also, it still seems a bit odd, I'll grant you that.

  There's this concept of degrees of free will- and the question is: could God have created humankind with just as much freewill, but less propensity to sin- or is that a logical impossibility? And can God do the logically impossible or not?

  Lots of interesting questions, keep looking for answers, and remember that if you find your answer to be that the whole thing is nonsense you should accept that result with the same relief you would accept it if someone could show you how it made sense the other way.
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  63

  ANOINTING - How JWs really know!

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anointing - how jws really know!

  [note: this is a 7 page post in case you may want to print it out and read it later.

  i hope that i do provide clarity on this topic, but i accept that i may have muddied the waters as much as i have tried to clear them up.

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  terraly

  Hey Amazing,

  A very interesting post.
  The shear arrogance of the Watchtower in dictating the spiritual lives of its followers is profoundly disturbing, but the notion that, unless you want to be one of the "troublesome new annointed", you have to interpret the Bible's message as being only partly for you is one of the worst ways that the WT messes with Witnesses.

  I empathize with where you are at in your current beliefs, and I look forward to your next post.
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  13

  Running On AutoPilot is the Borg's Achilles Heel

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please forgive the mixed metaphor.

  nevertheless, it summarizes.

  a convention talk on "the organization isn't fading away!"..

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  terraly

  Oh, I dunno if it's all that bright a picture.

  I think the borg can survive without changing. Now, to increase membership in the US and other developed countries probably requires certain changes to bring their more easily exposed faults more into line with common sense, but a slow steady decline for a while here is acceptable, and it will take a heck of a long time before these small losses (offset by gains elsewhere) actually _force_ the borg to change in order to survive.

  And change has great risks too. I've seen several people here who have said it was the generation change that caused them to leave.

  The GB runs the same risk with changing any major doctrine/practice. Loyal witnesses have the easiest time of it when there are no changes, and they can just keep running on autopilot instead of having to stop and think.

  So I think it's probably best for the GB to keep its head in the sand and sulk back among the ships, sending out Patroklos to fight instead. Um, I guess I'm not sure who he is in this metaphor, perhaps the legal dept.

  Anyhow, yeah- so they'll be able to survive for a long time running on autopilot. Worse luck..
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  12

  The Iceman and the Flood

  by Thirdson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a number of posts this week drew attention to the pseudo-science of the watchtower organization.

  in recent years the wts has not fared much better and clinging to fundamentalist ideas about the age of man, the idea that all of genesis is true only causes problems and serious questions.. i have previously posted thoughts on an archeological find and i thought id mention it again.

  the case was the 1991 discovery of the frozen corpse of an ancient man in the italian alps.

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  terraly

  Change the names of the characters in the flood story and every JW and fundamentalist on the planet would dismiss it as an amusing story and wildly inaccurate fantasy.

  But put in with a collection of other Jewish works which happens to be traditionally associated with their faith in some way and they'd deny the presence of their hand in front of their face if they needed to in order to cling to their just-so story.
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  35

  New Poster Here

  by MoeJoJoJo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first time posting anywhere.

  thought i would say hi and i am enjoying reading everyone's comments and stories.. "plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers.

  " -veronica a. shoffstall

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  terraly

  Christmas fruitcakes are the source of all evil and pain in this world.
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  A Web of their own

  by terraly in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is an old news story but i found it very interesting:.

  http://www.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/07/15feature.html.

  i'm sure the wt will keep on about the dangers of the internet for some time still, but when they get tired of that maybe they can take a lesson from scientology and create their own filtered version of the internet (think lots of wol and greatcrowd).

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  terraly

  This is an old news story but I found it very interesting:
  http://www.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/07/15feature.html

  I'm sure the WT will keep on about the dangers of the internet for some time still, but when they get tired of that maybe they can take a lesson from Scientology and create their own filtered version of the internet (think lots of WOL and GreatCrowd).
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  37

  Why is this an APOSTATE site?!?

  by LaraK in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  i made a big mistake when signing up at this supposed website for jehovah's witnesses.

  after reading some things on this site it has become apparent to me that this site is nothing put another pathetic site for apostates: people who betrayed jehovah, left the truth, and are so bitter about their experiene in the truth, and they are angry just like satan because they know they will very soon be dead at jehovah's hand!.

  this website should be renamed something more fitting like "satan's playground" or a similar name that would get across the message of your site.. sincerely,.

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  terraly

  Well, I don't know about that- instead of "Satan's playground" how about we call it "Kingdom Hall"?
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  36

  I Find it all interesting!

  by glode in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  before i startm let mejust apologizein advance ifmy spacekey doesnt work properly!

  !damn keyboard!

  anyways, i have been lookingthru theposts here for several weeks, i findmany of theopinions well thought out.

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  terraly

  Hey Globe,

  So many well-wishers for you here... must be a bit tiresome.

  Anyway, just wanted to tell you a little story. I must be about your age (currently in college). So's my girlfriend. She was a Witness when she came here, but with serious doubts about evolution, disfellowshipping, and the role of women in the Witnesses.

  Because of these flaws she decided she didn't want to be a hypocrite and pretend to believe in an Organization which she no longer did- so she disassociated herself. What was wrong with that? Would you have rather she lived a lie?

  Now her mother will not see her for anything except "business". Certainly no meals... Why? Her mother is scared. She _has_ to shun her daughter (who only found flaws with a religion and left it) because if she doesn't she'll lose all her friends (all witnesses), her new husband, and portions of her family. It's a tearing choice to make, between one family member and the rest of your life- and there's no right answer to make.

  And so my girlfriend and her mother both still cry after every painful, awkward meeting between them.

  This is what is wrong with the organization.

  I pray you will never have to experience the disfellowshipping or disassociating of someone you love.
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  1

  NY Times Article

  by Lee Elder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  rita swan from childinc sent me this article from the ny times today.

  though it concerns another.

  nutty group, christian scientist's, it reminds me a lot of the wts and the blood policy.

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  terraly

  Lest we forget there are other dangerous groups beside the Witnesses.

  My friend at college is taking off two years to pioneer... uh be a missionary in Idaho. He sent out an e-mail mentioning all the stuff he'll have to give up while he's there. Things like computers and guitar and the Simpsons (probably his three favorite things). He's a Mormon.

  Ah well, at least he'll be coming back here to finish his college education after he's done.
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  3

  Heaven

  by joelbear in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do most non-witness christian religions believe about heaven?

  do they believe people will come back to the earth after being in heaven?.

  keep it simple.

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  terraly

  Well, most non-Witness churches are a little less quick to draw lots of pictures detailing exactly what the hereafter will be like, so I can't speak outside of my own experience.

  I think it is a mistake to separate heaven and earth. The way I look at the imagery in Revelation, John is talking about the "new heaven and the new earth" not really as separate places, and why should they be? Earth in the midst of heaven, an integral part of it all.