Posts by truman

33

How Have U Changed since Leaving?

by patio34 in

i've been thinking about changes in my world view lately and wonder if others have had a similarly subtle, yet profound, outlook on life.

not being a jw nor even a believer anymore has made a subtle change that ive observed.

to begin with, i read somewhere that people tend to bring their own standards to their religion.

truman

I have changed so much since I left the WTS about a year and a half ago, that at times I don't even recognize the person I used to be. I was going to say I don't recognize who I have become, but that is not true. Now I am and am becoming more and more who I always should have been, who I would have been a long time ago if I hadn't been diverted from it for 27 years as a witness.

As a witness, I was a miserable, sad, fat, frumpy mess, just trudging along trying to 'endure to the end'. Now, I am a much happier person, have lost the excess weight and got fit, and learned to look better and feel better about myself and my life. I am doing new things and having adventures, taking lesson in activities I always wanted to do but was waiting for the 'new system' to pursue, and trying things I never thought I would. I am having a great time doing these things.

As far as changing my view of the world, yes, it has changed very much. I was always a very accepting person, but it was buried under my witness judgementalism. Now, I find so much satisfaction and freedom in being able to accept other people, their ideas, their lifestyles, and their ways as part of the interesting diversity of life. Some I can join with, some I cannot, but I can learn from it all.

I can feel free to read and assimilate whatever I want to, without having to censor my intellectual curiosity to a party line of thought control.

And as far as the question of beliefs on sexual morality as propounded by the WTBS, I have diverged widely from their viewpoint. But overall, my moral code is not too different. I strive to live in a way so as not to unnecessarily hurt other people, and help whenever I can.

Pat, I couldn't agree more about not having to feel a failure because my children chose a different path than the one I set out for them. Because one of my sons left the witnesses while I was still in, I felt like a total failure, and it crushed me. Now, I am so happy he is out with me, and I feel sad about the one who is still in. But, he seems to be happy, and as long as that is so, then I am happy for him. If the time comes when he starts to get disillusioned with JWs, then I will be there to help him get out if possible.

truman

20

My First Rock Concert....

by TheSurvivor in

now in my 40's i went to my first and most probably last rock concert last night.

i took the wife and kids (if you can still call them that with the youngest taller than me) to see the "motor city madman....ted nugent.

i guess that i am just not the rock and roll type.

truman

Hi Survivor,

I too am in my forties, and recently attended my first rock concert. My 23 year old son was happy to share his favorite band with his mother, so we went to a 'TOOL' concert. I had cultivated a liking for the music for a couple of months before going so I would be familiar with it, and found that I actually liked their music very much. It is quite an experience going to something like that, and I expected to be the oldest one there. But surprisingly enough, there were a number of us older teenagers there, even whole families.

My experience was fantastic. The band was absolutely incredible, and I saw no trouble with the crowd, with the exception of a jam-up getting out the door when it was over. Other than that everyone seemed pretty cool. I was worried about the sound levels, but found I really liked feeling the whole building rock, and being totally immersed in feeling the music. No ear plugs for me!

In some ways it is a little strange doing these things so far into life's journey, but I say I am ready to enjoy things now, that I have gotten rid of the mind control, and can really taste life.

truman

7

My Watch Tower experience ..........

by Tzu in

my watchtower experience ....... .

i came out of the watchtower approx 4 years ago and so did my husband and younger son who at the time was an un-baptised publisher.

hubby and myself were baptised.

truman

Hello and welcome Tzu,

Your stories of the mistreatment of animals are appalling, but well reminded me of similar, though not quite as dramatic experiences of my own. I remember once being at an elder's home when the family kitten was mewing behing a closed door which lead to a basement down a flight of stairs. He got tired of the kitten's crying, and opened the door and kicked it down the stairs. I was horrified, and later that evening I asked the wife if they wanted to be rid of the kitten, and ended up taking it home with me a couple of days later.

Also several times, I have taken cats from witnesses who wanted to be free of them for one reason or another, only to find out that a short time later, they had acquired another pet as a replacement. I could never understand why they couldn't just love the first one. I guess it is a good thing this is not allowed for children!

I too, have 'counselled' a brother with the scripture in Proverbs about caring for one's domestic animal. I was a new witness; he was an elder. Needless to say, it did not go over well. I heard later that his son had gotten in trouble for talking to me about an incident with a cat over which I spoke to him. Actually, it was the same brother in the first paragraph, and that is another reason I was so eager to rescue their poor little kitten.

Anyway, glad you got out of the WTS, and I hope you like it here.

truman

7

Who are you outside of a thought?

by Introspection in

hi all, i thought this question might be useful for some here, i find it tends to be a powerful tool that points to the fact that we are not the thoughts that tends to bring on depression or what have you.

obviously, if you stop thinking you don't just disappear, and thoughts of course come and go but you are always there.. anyways, something to consider.

you might say this is one of those questions that are not meant for an answer, but i say go right ahead and answer it, if the answer is something outside of a thought.

truman

Who are we outside of a thought? Well....I think, therefore, I am???? I completely agree
that we do not have to and would be ill-served by defining ourselves by our thoughts of
depression or negativity.

But I also believe that we create who we are by our thoughts, as well as molding our life
circumstances in line with what we feed our subconscious mind. If we consistantly view
ourselves and our experiences negatively, if we believe in our hearts that we are
unworthy, ruined, hopeless, whatever, that that is very likely just what we will be.

Even though thoughts are transitory, and we can learn to let them pass, on the whole I
think they go a long way toward defining who we are, not in the existence of our physical
selves, because as you said, we will still exist if we stop them, but they do seem to make
up the form of our 'selves'.

We can recreate ourselves by changing our thought patterns, and I personally feel that I
have done that since leaving the WTS, in a very major way. Not only in mind, but
physically as well, my body also being affected by my changing thought patterns and my
altered perception of myself. I am in many respects a very different person than I was a
year and a half ago, but at the same time, there is a core of me which remains steady, ad
was throughtout my JW experience of many years, though a large portion of it was not
given expression in that tightly controlled atmosphere. Thank goodness for a free mind!!

Please do not take the above as dogmatic. My expressions are always in a state of
openness to new learning, and respect to the diversity of viewpoints, which I truly believe
are valuable. These things are too big, and too complex to be pinned down to one and
only one way of looking at things.

truman

34

ADMIT IT, DIDN'T YOU FEEL SPECIAL being a JW?

by minimus in

jw
friends

remember, you had the truth!

everybody else didn't even have a clue!

the worldly people never understood our spiritual paradise.

truman

I do have to admit to having a feeling of 'specialness' at times, in that I thought it was certainly special to be one of the very few who would survive Armaggedon, and feeling a bit 'lucky' to have somehow found the one body of information, the secret, which would make that possible...the teachings of the WTS. But, on the other hand, I was often troubled with the concern of just why I seemed to have found such a favored circumstance, and so many others who seemed worthy or redeemable did not. I wondered just what it was about my thought processes and theirs which made the difference between being in God's favor and out of it, when other factors such as innate goodness, kindness, selflessness, generosity, etc., were either on a similar footing as me, or heavily weighted in favor of those in the world. Certainly, it cannot be determined by looking at the standard 'fine qualities' demonstrated among those in the cong, for there is every bit as much range evident there as there is 'in the world'. A while ago, I wrote the following about this subject.

Why me?

Why me?
What did I do to deserve this?
Was I in the right place at the right time?
Is there something in me others are without?

One of a selected few saved.......a minority from billions
One of the meek.......an obedient one
Those drawn by God.......I follow
A sacred secret......what awaits!
Undeserved kindness to me......should have been someone else
A sinner......my flaws and weaknesses
Everlasting life......my reward
A survivor amid apocalyptic ruin......your deliverence is near

Why me?
What did I do to deserve this?
Was I in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Is there something in others I am without?

False hopes, empty promises, I believed......a minority from billions
Duped in distrust of my own instincts......an obedient one
They had all the answers......I followed
I'll die like everybody......what awaits
A personality imposed on me.......should have been someone else
Some say a victim of victims......my flaws and weaknesses
A painful awakening, spiritual hangover......my reward
Go out from among us, you are not of our sort......your deliverence is here

Why me?
What did I do to deserve this?
What is this place and time?
Is there something in me others are without?

I've seen "through a glass darkly"......a minority from billions
To make my own way......an obedient one
From many paths, I choose which......I follow
A life of possibilities......what awaits?
Though, Oh! who I've left behind......should have been someone else
Explore, accept, understand......my flaws and weaknesses
My life to live now......my reward
a survivor out of a tower of rubble......my deliverence is here

truman

28

Any (original) Star Trek Fans?

by wasasister in

jw
friends

anyone remember the one where kirk got mixed up in the transporter and spit into two people?

one kirk was mean and violent and nasty and tried to feel up yoman rand and swore a lot and attacked people for no good reason.

the other kirk was sweet and nice and he seemed better, but he was kind of a woosie and couldn't make a decision or do anything meaningful except talk about denuvian slime bread toppings and he couldn't even get a bulge in the spandex for yoman rand, but at least he was polite.. gosh, i don't know what made me think of this episode.. night all,.

truman

I also, have been to a Star Trek convention, at which I had Nichelle Nichols autograph an article from an old TV Guide article about her. I also attended a performance of Shatner and Nimoy live, discussing their Trek experience, and telling all their stories.

I collect TV Guides as well (since 1967), and when TV Guide recently issued a 35 multiple Star Trek cover edition, I bought the collection! But...I'm not a Star Trek nut!!! I've never dressed up in costume....yet.

truman

6

What they SAY/What they MEAN is...

by LovesDubs in

jw
friends

in the hall, out in service or at the convention:.

"sister ester (aka polly), how wonderful to see you!

hasnt jehovah blessed us this fine day?

truman

What they say:

We really hope you'll come back to the Kingdom Hall soon. We haven't seen you for quite a while, and we miss you.

What they mean:

My God...you look great, you've lost weight, and you look happier tham we've seen you look in years. That CANNOT be good. You're getting too much enjoyment out of life away from the org., and you need to be back in the 'spiritual paradise' miserable and bored like the rest of us. After all, if we are not constantly reminded how bad life is in this system, how could we keep our attention focused on Armaggedon.

truman

12

DF = DA = non-assocciation?

by truman in

i was wondering if anyone else is feeling it on the wind that there seems to be a coming.

equivilency between officially disassociating onesself, and simply being in a state of.

non-association as a walkaway, fade-out, inactive person.

truman

Thanks all for your comments!

Minimus,
I sure hope they don't decide to come after me, 'cause they might just be able to find 'probable cause', at least in their eyes for some sort of action. I do try to cover my tracks pretty well though.

Pat,
Nice to run into you. I've been thinking about sending you an email lately, but haven't done it yet. I'd love to hear from you.

outnfree,
Thanks for the hug. It always helps to get one. I do know that the price for leaving is high, no matter which method of exit is chosen, or foisted upon a person. I love my son very, very much, but whatever the cost, I can no longer be a prisoner of mind control.

truman

12

DF = DA = non-assocciation?

by truman in

i was wondering if anyone else is feeling it on the wind that there seems to be a coming.

equivilency between officially disassociating onesself, and simply being in a state of.

non-association as a walkaway, fade-out, inactive person.

truman

I was wondering if anyone else is feeling it on the wind that there seems to be a coming
equivilency between officially DISASSOCIATING onesself, and simply being in a state of
non-association as a walkaway, fade-out, inactive person.

I have been speaking to several people who are either zealous witnesses (with me talking
to them incognito as a dissident) or are non-associating JWs living with the possibility of misery over this from zealous family members. There seems to be a feeling that those who just leave without fanfare really ought to be treated the same as someone who officially DAs or is DF'd. This apparently has been fanned into flames by the current material being studied from the August KM,concerning how to treat DF'd and DA'd relatives. Though I could find nothing explicit about this in the KM article, I feel a foreboding about the possibility, and have noticed what seemed to be an expression of it in my own interaction with local witnesses.

I am just a fade-out person myself, but have lived in my small town and been in my cong
for over 15 years, so know everybody well, and am known. Yesterday, I happened upon a
brother who is usually very friendly, and at first he looked like he was going to completely
ignore my greeting, but then said, "I haven't seen you around for a while". That was all he
said. I haven't been to a meeting for several months. This is worrisome, because I have
an adult child who is a MS, and very zealous. I desperately do not want any more
distance between us due to WT policy than there already is.

Has anybody heard anything about this?

truman

20

Connie Chung? What Happened?

by patio34 in

jw
friends

i'm in california and just tuned in to cnn @ 8:00 and there was 1/2 hour of connie chung about kidnapped kids, but nothing about bill bowen, the two girls, or the wts.

anyone know what happened?

patedited by - patio34 on 14 august 2002 23:45:2.

truman

Hi Patio,

I am also in California, and I was able to catch the show. I happened to be channel surfing around 6:30, and ran upon it. So they did show the piece early in the evening.

truman