gingerbread

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Posts by gingerbread

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  68

  I just want a divorce!

  by bornfree123 in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  hi there, this is my first post, but i've been buzzing around this site for years.. i got married at 18, hubby was 20, i was a regular pioneer and we were talking about serving in bethel.

  fast forward - i left in 2004 after a 5 year battle with my conscience, family and friends who kept insisting that i was just "weak and needed to have another bible study".

  however hubby and i stayed together although it was kinda on the understanding that we would just not talk about it.

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  gingerbread

  .....and these people are idiots! Isn't that nice the a 'brother' can be separated from his wife for 30 years and still have...'priviledges.'

  What a FINE example to follow. It's no wonder that young people are leaving by the droves....
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  68

  I just want a divorce!

  by bornfree123 in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  hi there, this is my first post, but i've been buzzing around this site for years.. i got married at 18, hubby was 20, i was a regular pioneer and we were talking about serving in bethel.

  fast forward - i left in 2004 after a 5 year battle with my conscience, family and friends who kept insisting that i was just "weak and needed to have another bible study".

  however hubby and i stayed together although it was kinda on the understanding that we would just not talk about it.

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  gingerbread

  I've been through this situation myself. Outside of the scope of the emotional trauma of divorce, I can suggest a couple of things to consider.

  Divorce is a business transaction - a division of assets and debts. In order for this to work out fairly, you must retain an experienced divorce attorney. It may cost a couple thousand dollars, but it's worth it.

  If he is in 'good standing' with the congregation, you have leverage. Inform your husband that you have written a (registered) letter to the elders informing them of his abandonment of you as his wife. He has failed in his scriptural obligation to support you physically, emotionally and spiritually. You can add accusations of verbal or physical abuse and infidelity. Let it all hang out. The elders with be meeting with him a.s.a.p.

  Do not communicate with your husband. Refer him to your divorce attorney. Don't talk with the elders over the phone - conversations will be recorded and shared with your husband, his family, etc. Document EVERYTHING, record phone calls, keep notes - this will be important information for your lawyer to have.

  If you remain in a amicable seperation, the elders will do nothing to him. Period. They don't want to get mixed up in marital situation that are heading to the court room.

  You must play hardball and take control of your future. First thing to do - consult with an attorney.
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  19

  Public Talks all MANUSCRIPT now???

  by hamsterbait in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on another thread gingerbread said (ouch - the poetry is not deliberate!

  ) that all sunday public talks are now manuscript.. is this why the brothers have been doing babble readings without adding any comment?

  so they can just regurgitate words convincingly whether they understand or not??.

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  gingerbread

  Thanks for the reference Hamsterbait.

  To be more specific, the actual talks in the congregation are in outline form. However, from my vantage point the direction is to stick directly with the outline - not omitting points or 'ad libbing'. This point is repeated throughout the Ministerial Training School and the Congregation Coordinators take this very seriously. In the elder's meeting this directive - to stick with GB's outline for talks - is a mandate. Illustrations or experiences should come from WT publications (unless a current news event applies to the outline).

  BOC and Falcon have it correct about assemblies and conventions.

  In addition to 'outline' or full manuscript talks, many congregations have digital projectors (a directive from 'the Branch') that will be showing talks that come directly from New York. It's my speculation that the next step is live feed for Sunday talks.

  That's exactly what will be happening this October for the Annual Meeting - where all will study the 'new understanding' about the F&DS.
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  73

  What on earth happened to the magazines?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for the first time in years today.

  to say that it took me five minutes to read the whole thing would be to flatter the rag.

  it doesn't even seem to contain actual articles any more, just headings and bullet points and pictures.

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  gingerbread

  Welcome to the new World of the Watchtower!

  Attend a Sunday meeting. The new series of talks (they're all manuscript now) are just a elementary.

  The dramas in the past decade have increasingly become sooooo ... simple.

  It's all geared toward adults who (must) have the attention span of a 2nd grader. The attitude being transmitted is that the average publisher is just like a child. "You can't even trust yourself anymore."
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  59

  The Governing Body scenario is nearly identical to that in 1977 - no power

  by Dogpatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower perposely keeps its leaders "cordoned off" for a reason.

  the ones really in charge want to be invisible and have been in control since knorr's day, and still think like him.

  the gb want like hell to be visible and powerful.

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  gingerbread

  Randy - your perspective on the situation is sound - except for a few points that must be recognized. The GB does in fact wield tremendous power - over 7 million humans on this planet who adhere faithfully to their dictates. The times have changed since your days in Bethel - the membership of JW's has quadrupled. Your understanding of headquarters is firmly set by your own experience - 40 years ago. I knew plenty of brothers that worked in the factory during the 70's. They are now aged, faithful brothers of retirement age without a retirement fund. Or, some were disallusioned by the whole experience and eventually found their way out of the org.

  Many of us didn't become a JW because of our doorbell ringing one Saturday morning. We're second and third generation 'born-in' Witnesses. Those of us who have confronted our doubts, find ourselves in a pecular situation. The problem is complex. And, decisions about our future can be difficult.

  We've come to understand - by working at KH and Assembly Hall builds with the RBC's, by being aware of the drastic downsizing of the org, realizing the massive legal problems the WT corporations find themselves in, etc. - that the current situation of the org is perhaps unknowable. Your parallel to a commercial corporation and the WT Org is correct - in that the Org is a commercial corporation(s).

  The mystique of the organization has evaporated in our time.
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  153

  The antidote to the myth that JWs are declining

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  one of the most persistent myths on this website is that jws are already in decline, the rot has set in, and the descent of the watchtower is inevitable from here on in.

  unfortunately the facts do not bear this out.

  jws are still increasing even in most developing countries, and they are still growing worldwide at a faster rate than the general population.

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  gingerbread

  I agree that the overall numbers (if that is what's really important) show remarkable growth over the past 50 years. But perhaps the numbers of JW's is not the issue. The concern for JW leadership is retention of a faithful membership.

  The last great influx of the general public conversions was in the late 1960's and early 1970's. These folks have children and grandchildren 'in the truth'. They are also at the age of retirement or older. The fastest growth within the organization is aging/retired ones. Or, that's how it appears if one 'scans' the local kingdom hall and assembly/convention population. What it really shows is a failure to retain the born-in Witness. In the United States. this is the reality of the organization's population. I hear it's reflected in Europe as well.

  The organization is desperate to stop the apathy and disillusionment of it's members. These factors are their real enemy.
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  82

  My Mom has decided to turn me in... I am not afraid (Letter Inside)

  by sosoconfused in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the only reason i am posting this is because i know many of you are going or will be going through something similar and wonder if it is worth it.

  i personally feel that it is worth it regardless of what i lose.

  my wife is backing me and i have my children.

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  gingerbread

  Your family is what I would qualify as Hardcore JW's. They believe 100% that what is printed in the publications must be followed to the letter. Even 'suggestions' are considered a regulation. In my years of experience in this org, I've concluded that children raised in this kind of 'Truth' environment see life in very black and white terms i.e. you're either all in the faith or your 'gone or the WT way is only the right way to live.

  Question: Did your parents use WT and Awake articles to 'train you' as a youngster? Were the publications seen as the authority on life & the only viable source for solutions to everyday problems? Did they take the time to talk honestly with you as a son and not as a JW kid?

  Your Mom is using guilt to persuade you and fear to control you. She means well. It's the only approach she knows.
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  45

  Unbelievable Experience in Yearbook

  by gingerbread in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a number of years back i heard a story of a young girl in a congregation ( i have some good friends in this hall ) who had an amazing field service experience.

  it was so amazing that it was retold in the 2007 yearbook!.

  it is retold in the highlight of the past year section.

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  gingerbread

  Thank you AnnOMaly ! I was 'fact checking' for this reference just yesterday - I remember reading it and wanted to post it here.

  It's FACTS like these that helps the curious or timid fader to reconsider what he has believed to be 'truth.'
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  9

  $$$WTBS$$$

  by Kool Jo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what do you think is the real status of the wtbs in terms of cash/assets/wealth?.

  based on the following statements, what do you think?.

  1. due to the conti lawsuit, they've suffered.. 2. they're asset rich and cash poor.

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  gingerbread

  There is a current push in the States for congregations to repay the KH 'loan' as quickly as possible. I'm sure the org wants to 'cash flow' all it's building projects.

  If the Society's corporations don't borrow money for it's construction projects, they won't ever go bankrupt. By owning all properties outright, they can liquidate at any time with ease.

  Remember that the Patterson complex was offered up as surety after the Candace Conti abuse case verdict. The WT could do this because Patterson's title is clear of any leans (mortgage).
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  11

  Haven't been online..and update

  by Flicka in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey guys, i hope you are all doing great.

  my husband and i joined this sight in the beginning of last year.

  time flies.

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  gingerbread

  By disassociating yourself from the org you are following their policies - the rules of engagement will automatically change. You are allowing the organization to separate your family from you. Your parents & sister are fully involved / invested in this belief system. That is their choice. You've made your position clear. Disassociation will prove in their minds that you are 'mentally diseased' and deserving of shunning and final destruction.

  As JW's we're trained to blame everything on the 'outside' for all of our problems. Your mother feels abandoned by you because the religion demands that the faithful choose it over family. By blaming others for your position, you parents can be free from guilt because of your personal decision. And, you ( as their daughter ) would never behave like this! It must be the fault of your husband and his family....

  They're just scared of the 'reproach' and consequences of your decision. If you want to communicate with your parents for the rest of their lives, just carry on without making a public statement.