Posts by gingerbread

48

Genuine repentance - if you can fake that you'll avoid getting disfellowshipped

by slimboyfat in

to paraphrase a well known saying.

is it true, in a judicial committee, if you can fake repentance, then they are likely to let you off being disfellowshipped, almost regardless of the "severity" of the sin involved?

can former elders and perhaps victims of the process shed light on the matter?

gingerbread

A decision to disfellowship will be made because the JC feels like they HAVE to - they have no other choice. Either the person confesses/spills his guts or too many people in the congregation have witnessed the wrongdoing (meaning two, three or more people testify against the accused) or he has been previously reproved for the same 'sin'. Also, if the Coordinator puts pressure on the committee, he can sway the decision making process because of pre-existing bias.

If someone has an elder for a father/uncle/good friend and gets 'coached' about what to say, how to say it, etc., they usually avoid the big DF - UNLESS one or more of the situations mentioned exist.

If a person ever 'avoids' getting disfellowshipped, he will find himself under constant scrutiny (with a target on his back).

The closed door judicial commitee has no scriptural precedent for christians.

22

Me. 2 weeks on.

by wizzstick in

jw
friends

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gingerbread

I began the de-construction of my faith...in this faith...about 2 years ago. The process began not out of anger (though I have plenty of reason), but out of the need to understand why I believe what I believe. Eventually I came to understand the history of basic WT doctrines & customs, the WTBTS, it's founders, the 'organization', etc. The more I dug for answers the more questions I found unanswered.

The emotional impact on you will be draining. Learn to take breaks and 'catch your breath.' You now have the time.

9

My congregation is invited to the Annual meeting via Dell Projector!!!

by DATA-DOG in

i guess tickets will be given to those who qualify.

i am usure if all in the congregation are invited, or just a selected group within selected congregations.

i am guessing that it would be selected individuals from certain congregations.

gingerbread

Same here.

I mentioned that we had planned some time out of town that weekend. And suggested that the special tickets (I called it 'opportunity') be given to someone else. I've been getting the cold shoulder from this elder ever since. Whatever...

9

Found photocopied pages of a book on Jesus, given to me by a householder years ago

by cedars in

hi folks.

i was going through some old things recently and came across photocopied pages i had forgotten existed.

they are scans of selected pages from the book who was jesus?, by don cupitt, published in the 70s.

gingerbread

Birth of a savior or prophet by miraculous conception is a theme that appears in almost all cultures. The story of Isaac being born to Sarah through holy spirit is the Hebrew precursor to the Immaculate Conception.

Other traditions predate the birth of Christ. Buddha was conceived by his mother during a dream - about 500 years before the birth of Christ. Both Babylonian and Assyrian histories contain miraculous birth through the intervention of a diety - 2000 years before Christ.

Google these folks: Houji, Momotaro, Zoroaster, Vishnu & Coatlique.

8

Elders abuse of power

by toto555 in

elders holding brothers back from being elder because they didn't like them, had a grudge, jealous of them etc.

selective enforcement of rules as well.

what have you guys seen over the years?.

gingerbread

Two young people get into some trouble. Kid no. 1 tells elder dad about it and gets 'coached' on the importance of confessing to the elders first and then how to act & what to say during the JC meetings. Kid no. 2 who only has a mom - divorced a long time ago & who struggles to get her family to meetings, field service, etc. - is blindsided by the committee's agressive treatment.

Kid no. 1 gets praise for being 'forthcoming' and showing obvious repentance. Get private reproof. Goes on to become a pioneer.

Kid no. 2 gets DFed. This devastates Mom, child eventually leaves and never gets reinstated. Mom and kid no.1 haven't spoken in 20 years.

54

Is This Site As Active As It Was In The Past?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i'm just curious if jwn is as busy as it was even a year or two ago?

.

sometimes it seems this place buzzes and other times, not so much....but maybe it's all in my head..

gingerbread

The .com site looks very promising!

68

I just want a divorce!

by bornfree123 in

hi there, this is my first post, but i've been buzzing around this site for years.. i got married at 18, hubby was 20, i was a regular pioneer and we were talking about serving in bethel.

fast forward - i left in 2004 after a 5 year battle with my conscience, family and friends who kept insisting that i was just "weak and needed to have another bible study".

however hubby and i stayed together although it was kinda on the understanding that we would just not talk about it.

gingerbread

It sounds, from the additional details, that you're going about this nasty business in the right way. It's a blessing that your mom is backing your decision. I'm guessing that the marriage was a bit of a disappointment to your folks in the beginning. Those of us that were raised in the 'truth' often marry because of some sense of obligation and guilt.

As my folks told me when I was going through this...chalk it up to experience. Cut your losses and enjoy the rest of your life.

About kids ( I have those too ) : please consider counseling. The damage done because of divorce leaves scars for a lifetime. It will affect how they see you, the ex and their future relationships. Don't talk negative about your husband in front of the kids. He will always be their Dad. Ask your parents to show the same respect for the feelings of the children. They're innocent bystanders. Don't allow them to become emotional pawns in this game called divorce.

68

I just want a divorce!

by bornfree123 in

hi there, this is my first post, but i've been buzzing around this site for years.. i got married at 18, hubby was 20, i was a regular pioneer and we were talking about serving in bethel.

fast forward - i left in 2004 after a 5 year battle with my conscience, family and friends who kept insisting that i was just "weak and needed to have another bible study".

however hubby and i stayed together although it was kinda on the understanding that we would just not talk about it.

gingerbread

.....and these people are idiots! Isn't that nice the a 'brother' can be separated from his wife for 30 years and still have...'priviledges.'

What a FINE example to follow. It's no wonder that young people are leaving by the droves....

68

I just want a divorce!

by bornfree123 in

hi there, this is my first post, but i've been buzzing around this site for years.. i got married at 18, hubby was 20, i was a regular pioneer and we were talking about serving in bethel.

fast forward - i left in 2004 after a 5 year battle with my conscience, family and friends who kept insisting that i was just "weak and needed to have another bible study".

however hubby and i stayed together although it was kinda on the understanding that we would just not talk about it.

gingerbread

I've been through this situation myself. Outside of the scope of the emotional trauma of divorce, I can suggest a couple of things to consider.

Divorce is a business transaction - a division of assets and debts. In order for this to work out fairly, you must retain an experienced divorce attorney. It may cost a couple thousand dollars, but it's worth it.

If he is in 'good standing' with the congregation, you have leverage. Inform your husband that you have written a (registered) letter to the elders informing them of his abandonment of you as his wife. He has failed in his scriptural obligation to support you physically, emotionally and spiritually. You can add accusations of verbal or physical abuse and infidelity. Let it all hang out. The elders with be meeting with him a.s.a.p.

Do not communicate with your husband. Refer him to your divorce attorney. Don't talk with the elders over the phone - conversations will be recorded and shared with your husband, his family, etc. Document EVERYTHING, record phone calls, keep notes - this will be important information for your lawyer to have.

If you remain in a amicable seperation, the elders will do nothing to him. Period. They don't want to get mixed up in marital situation that are heading to the court room.

You must play hardball and take control of your future. First thing to do - consult with an attorney.

19

Public Talks all MANUSCRIPT now???

by hamsterbait in

on another thread gingerbread said (ouch - the poetry is not deliberate!

) that all sunday public talks are now manuscript.. is this why the brothers have been doing babble readings without adding any comment?

so they can just regurgitate words convincingly whether they understand or not??.

gingerbread

Thanks for the reference Hamsterbait.

To be more specific, the actual talks in the congregation are in outline form. However, from my vantage point the direction is to stick directly with the outline - not omitting points or 'ad libbing'. This point is repeated throughout the Ministerial Training School and the Congregation Coordinators take this very seriously. In the elder's meeting this directive - to stick with GB's outline for talks - is a mandate. Illustrations or experiences should come from WT publications (unless a current news event applies to the outline).

BOC and Falcon have it correct about assemblies and conventions.

In addition to 'outline' or full manuscript talks, many congregations have digital projectors (a directive from 'the Branch') that will be showing talks that come directly from New York. It's my speculation that the next step is live feed for Sunday talks.

That's exactly what will be happening this October for the Annual Meeting - where all will study the 'new understanding' about the F&DS.