Posts by Rattigan350

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Rattigan350

Sanchy said "It's interesting how both sides of the argument could use different Bible scriptures to prove their point."

No. There is nothing that the trinitarians can do to prove it. What they use are weak and irrelevant arguments from scriptures that are spurious and controversial. They just have their pet scriptures, but when examined they don't work.

They like to use John 1:1. Word was God.

But they don't understand that it was a prologue to the biography of Jesus written 65 years after his death.

Doesn't that contradict Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;" But they don't see that.

How about something contemporaneous to his life?

They like to use what Thomas said "My Lord and My God" which is out of context, but they ignore specific sayings to the contrary.

John 1:49 "Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel."

And Matt 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Oh, but they created this "God the Son" thing to get around that.

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Rattigan350

"The diagram is scriptural and illustrates how Jesus is both Fully Man and Fully God. Please explain how my chart is unscriptural or inconsistent?"

What scriptures support that diagram?

The ones you listed there don't support that. Yes, God is spirit. Nothing to do with Body, Soul and Spirit. Yes, 1 Thess 5:23 says "may the spirit and soul and body of you brothers" it does not indicate a tripartite nature of man because while Pauls wrote that, he was wrong. Soul = body + spirit or breath. I accept what Genesis 2:7 said over Paul "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Body + breath of life = living soul. 1+1 = 2. Not 1+1+ 1.

"Jesus raised himself from the dead"

If Jesus could do that, he wasn't dead. Then the sacrifice was invalid.

No, death does not mean separation. Death means not working or functioning. It's like turning your computer off and unplugging it. It's dead. It won't come on.

33

Historian and former JW Jim Penton dies

by slimboyfat in

i don’t know a lot about james penton but i think he deserves a better thread than the one currently on offer.

james penton, who died recently, grew up in a jw family in canada and served as an elder.

unusually for a jw, he studied liberal arts at university and became a history professor.

Rattigan350

Penton was an angry man. He's not in heaven like he thought he would be. The thing about being mild tempered is in play there.

18

Meeting attendance

by Farmer Jim1 in

jw
friends

for those still in the organization what is your meeting attendance like these days?.

when i left in 2017 there were around 80 publishers and the average meeting attendance was 70..

Rattigan350

I attend all of the meetings because that is how I can show off my brilliance.

51

The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

by Longlivetherenegades in

those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

1. father .

2. jesus .

Rattigan350

Sea Breeze, why do you all have to bring in these unscriptural, made up diagrams?

Body, Soul and Spirit???? What does that have to do with anything?

Don't you know that it is Body + spirit = living soul.

If you can't get that even right...

In John 2:19 Jesus did not predict that he would raise himself from the dead, because Acts said that God raised him up. And if he could raise himself from the dead, he wasn't dead.

Stop focusing on the words that were written because the words could have been said or written wrongly. Yes, Jesus said a bunch of crazy stuff that the apostles didn't understand and they may not have recorded it properly.

So learn the mechanics of how things work and that won't be a problem.

16

Explanation for changes to Disfellowshipping rules at Annual Meeting

by Listener in

wally, a youtuber from jw thoughts highlighted something that was said by kenneth cook jnr in the annual meeting.

he thinks it may be removed before they publish the agm.

i doubt we would see it in writing either.. part of kenneth's talk was about the changes regarding disfellowshipping and the clip from jw thoughts youtube shows him saying -.

Rattigan350

The thing that no one gets is that the disfellowshipping thing comes from 1 Corinthians. Paul's letter to a congregation 2000 years ago. Why are we reading and making policy from one man's letter to another congregation from that long ago?

Wouldn't it have to be something from the apostles and older men (which they call the governing body of that time) and they would make a declaration and that would be sent to all of the congregations?

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Rattigan350

Jesus being the first or beginning of God's creation would go along with his being the only-begotten son of God.

It's that simple. No need for 8 pages of comments.

73

JWN, 23 years posting Blondie

by blondie in

jw
friends

can i call you friends, i think so after 23 years posting here.

i am dismayed how jwn is being "dominated" or taken over by a few posters, peppering the comments.

in the past, the admin did not approve of this and did remove some posters from jwn.

Rattigan350

"People are pissed because it affected their whole lives"

Why? Whose fault is that?

It's nice to blame others for our choices. I know. I've looked in my past from 40 years ago and if so many things have happened differently then my life would be so much better today. But I don't know if I can say better, it would be different. I can blame God because he should know what the future holds. But the decisions ultimately were mine.

Also, unlike so many Witnesses who want the kingdom to come because they want Jehovah to fix all of their problems, I have never been one to look to the kingdom like that. I have this life to live , I'm good with it and then when that is done, I'll live the next one. The kingdom has so many unknowns, that I'd rather go with what I know.

73

JWN, 23 years posting Blondie

by blondie in

jw
friends

can i call you friends, i think so after 23 years posting here.

i am dismayed how jwn is being "dominated" or taken over by a few posters, peppering the comments.

in the past, the admin did not approve of this and did remove some posters from jwn.

Rattigan350

TonusOH. No one lied to you. Just because a writer in the past had more faith of expectation than actually happened, does not make it a lie.

Lie -

1 - to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

2 - to create a false or misleading impression

The writers in the past did neither to create a lie. They didn't create false or misleading impressions just because it didn't happen. I understand that which is why I'm not bothered by anything they printed in the past. The writers' faith is the writers' faith and I've never ridden on their coattails.

7

FOR ACTIVE JW's: January 2025 Study Watchtower: Where is JESUS?

by BoogerMan in

didn't jehovah assign christ all power & authority?

so why no mention of him?.

from the january 2025 study watchtower: .

Rattigan350

Why are you making an issue out of something that is not a problem?

The yeartext is from the Psalms where there was not Jesus yet. So how can it mention him?

FYI, In Acts 1:6 Jesus said "you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth" because the people to whom he was speaking, actually witnessed him say and do things.

Thus it would not apply to us today, because we didn't witness him do or say anything. Reading it in a book does not make any of us witnesses to what Jesus said and did. It's hard to believe that people don't understand that simple concept. Which is a totally different concept from Isaiah 43:10-12 of being Witnesses of Jehovah. But hey, people will complain just to complain.