when the public reads stuff like this, it makes them think how strange jw's are.
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/0/3621e5bd9a9bd8e280256e78002de315!opendocument.
prince upset by ben affleck's swearing .
Prince's behavior is just more fuel for the fire of the likes of Kevin Smith and George Carlin(who appears in several of Smith's movies). Both Smith and Carlin love to skewer religion. People like Prince(or any fundamentalist) who makes a show of righteousness make it easy for them.
I've never cared for his purpleness(though I do own Purple Rain). He seemed to carry things to excessiveness. Now that he's found religion, he's going to carry it to excessiveness.
an earlier thread talking about the "illuminators" book used at the pioneer school jogged my memory.
i remember how excited everybody got about the upcoming school.
even the regular publishers got all excited about it.
An earlier thread talking about the "Illuminators" book used at the Pioneer school jogged my memory. I remember how excited everybody got about the upcoming school. Even the regular publishers got all excited about it.
After reading the earlier thread about how the pioneers were told to not share their "special" book with the non-pioneers it kinda pissed me off. Remember how everybody had to plan their schedule around the pioneer school that week? Remember how the publishers had to cook/provide/serve food for the teachers and students? Remember how the pioneers were told to not attend regular meetings that week? Elders and MSs, remember picking up the slack of the pioneer elders and MSs that week? Remember how later the pioneers would drop hints about things they learned, but would never come right out and say exactly what was shared in the school? We were excited for you and with you and worked our asses off so you could attend and you can't share your stupid little book with us?
The JWs/WTS is really a class system religion. They talk about how everyone is equal and how we are all brothers(and sisters), yet, everyone is in one class or another. Elders and MSs are better than other brothers. Elder's wives are better than non-elder's wives. Pioneers are better than publishers. No, they don't come right out and say it in so many words, but their actions speak loud and clear. What is sad is that you don't see it from inside, but once your out and look back you can't help but see it.
why do you think people choose to join this religion??
?
I used to wonder, when I was an active dub, why people couldn't understand what we were offering and if they were honest with themselves how they couldn't accept "the Truth(tm)". It was exasperating to discuss(read "argue") with a householder about our beliefs and they just didn't get it.
Now, I wonder the opposite, why would anyone want to become a witness? If you study up on them, both from their own perspective and an outside perspective, there's no way a normal, sane person would want to subject themselves to this. But yet they get more and more converts.
I feel sure that I would have never joined on my own initative, basically because I'm not a religious person. Even as a JW, I knew that I wasn't a zealous type. I did just enough to get by. I felt it was the right religion, but only because I was told that my whole life. I'm embarrassed now that it took me so long to question it, learn the real truth and then get out.
boy did i get a laugh!
i just read a few paragrphs from an older publication from the society.
it's called "the meek shall inherit the earth" written in 1945....pages 24-27. after armageddon....dubs will be assigned where they will live.....they can't choose their spot.
The land assignment committe will be assigned to San Diego, CA. Theri headquarters will be at Beth Sarim. Though Jesus makes the final decision as to who goes where he will use earthly followers to direct the work. This all important work will be headed by the faithful men of old, Abraham, Isacc et al. (Remember, they will be resurrected shortly before Armageddon) Land assignments will spread across what was formerly North America and then ships will be built to send pioneers(pun intended) to occupy the lands east and west of the former Americas.
yesterday, a business associate asked me why jws would not celebrate a birthday, a bar mitzvah, or any other holiday.
he asked why they literally believed only 144,000 go to heaven.
he asked how they could celebrate everything 1 year and the next year, tell their families that everything is pagan........my answer to all of his questions, were "it's because they're a cult.
Depends on which definition of cult you use. In the strictest sense of the word, all religions are cults. Gangs and MC clubs are cults. Trekkies are a cult. But, most people think of Jim Jones, the Moonies and David Koresh when they think of cults. Using the strict definition, JWs are a cult, but going by how most people think of cults, then no, JWs are not a cult.
I've never called JWs a cult to anyone. I just tell people it was a strict, sectarian religion with weird beliefs that I grew up with and didn't question until much later. I do not defend them. I also do not try to drag them through the mud anymore than necessary. I state the facts and explain that I have moved on and do not follow their beliefs anymore, though I do have family and friends still involved with it.
last night president bush had a news conference and was asked by several reporters if he thought he should appologise for the 9-11 attacks.. i wonder how fdr would have responded to such a question about pearl harbor?.
how about chruchhill?
can you imagine his response if asked to appologise for hitler bombing london?
you will find less people complaiing about the invasion of afghanistan. why? because those guys were actually involved with al quaeda. hussein simply was not and did not pose a threat.
I agree with that up to a point. I believed that the invasion of Iraq was not in the best interests of the US. But since they are committed to it, they need to finish it. This pussy-footing around is making a mess. Personally, I think the US should have concentrated on bin laden, Al Queda and any who supported them before messing with Iraq. That's knowing what I know now. But what about before 9-11?
How many people before 9-11 really paid much attention to Al-Queda or bin laden? Outside of the intelligiance community that is? If the US stormed Afganistan before 9-11 and used military might, people would have said we had no business going in there. No matter what the government does, somebody is not going to like it. Invade or sit back and wait and somebody is gonna bitch about it.
some feel that you should put out a history of who you are, what your life was and is like now and express it in a very simple way so that everyone can "know" you.
we've had posters say they were elders, elder's sisters, hurt jws, etc.
it could all be a little fantasy.
I don't let on much about me. I'm trying to fade(so far successfully). I don't need some lurking do-gooder dub to blow my cover.
I appreciate those that tell what they can about themselves. I value the experiences that I hear from others who have gone through some terrible things because of the WTS. I hope, in my own small way, that I can encourage others who are leaving or are trying to leave in my rather unspecific experiences and things learned along the way.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't come here for friendship or companionship. I do come here for support or to help support others. In doing that I feel like I have come to know some different ones and can relate to them because of going through similar circumstances. I feel for them and hope things work out for all that are trying to escape the WTS. But I know that I will probably never meet anyone in person nor do I feel the need to. My life is getting better as time goes on. I value this board and all that everyone has done to help myself and others, but my life lies outside both the JW community and the X-JW community.
last night president bush had a news conference and was asked by several reporters if he thought he should appologise for the 9-11 attacks.. i wonder how fdr would have responded to such a question about pearl harbor?.
how about chruchhill?
can you imagine his response if asked to appologise for hitler bombing london?
You can't win.
Bush invades Iraq on the grounds that Iraq is a threat to the free world. Some of his excuses don't pan out(ie WMD) but Hussein was a bad guy, he hated the US and her allies, he hated freedom. He supported terrorism(supposedly). The UN wouldn't do anything about it so Bush did. Look at the shit he's in now. What are his critics saying? Shouldn't have invaded. Didn't have enough reason to invade. Couldn't make an Al Queda tie. Should pull out now. Americans are dying. We don't belong there.
What if we use that same reasoning in pre 9-11 actions? What if more military action was taken before 9-11? The same people who condemn him now would have condemned him then. On one hand he's critisized for taking action and on the other hand he's critisized for not taking action.
You just can't win.
if the jw organization were considered a normal business operating without the protections of being a religion, it obviously would have to make some big changes in order to avoid being sued out of existence for sex discrimination.
i wasn't raised to think that women should be relegated to second class status or that they should have less opportunities than men or be relegated to a limited set of life roles.
however, when i became a jw, i freely accepted all the sexist nonsense that came with the territory without ever being bothered by it.
Outside of not being allowed to be an elder or have main meeting parts, women were treated fairly in my years of being a JW. The one weird thing was the head-covering when a woman conducted meetings for service or prayed outloud. Outside of that, women were never looked down on as inferior or not as smart. In fact, women have been used in some pretty good positions in the quick builds and assembly hall builds. The older sisters were treasured in the halls that I attended. People sought out their viewpoint and advice. Maybe the area where I grew up appreciated women in general more, I don't know. Maybe I was lucky in the halls I attended, again, I don't know.
If you want to blame something on the secondary status of women in religion, blame the Bible. It all started there.
Edited:
1 Corinthians 14:34
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says."
It's not just the JWs. Religions of all kinds have taken scriptures like this one and used it to keep men in superior positions. I don't think the JWs(as a whole) treat women badly outside of not letting them have positions inside the church.
i've come to appreciate that "freeness of speech" is something one could have only if they were studying with witnesses.
once you became a witness, it was all over!
no more questions, discussions or contrary opinions.
Freeness of speech.
Seems like I remember that phrase being used by JWs in the sense that as long as we lived our lives as proper Christians(or in their case, JWs) without hidden sins or wrong thoughts then we had "freeness of speech" in that we can preach and teach without guilt. Elders and MSs had to be careful that they were living their lives in an examplary way so as to have "freeness of speech" from the pulpit, er, stage, er, platform.
Interesting that we were conditioned to think that as long as we towed the line, we had freeness of speech, but in actuality, we were not free. Not in speech, not in action, not in dress, not in anything. The WTS says, "obey and you're free" but what they really meant was, "obey, do as your told, believe what we tell. We'll let you think you're free, but we've really got you by the short hairs".
