i ran into my df'd, trying to get back into the dubs, uncle and my jw cousin the other day.
i was coming out of a movie theatre with my "worldly" girlfriend.
after a couple pleasantries we departed and they finished cleaning the theatre's windows .
My family considers me weak and any of the "friends" that even bother to think of me, think of me as weak. Some of the elders that I have spoken to about my "doubts" consider me a threat with leanings toward evil.
I am healing nicely now and the last meeting with the elders raised no guiltiness or shame only verification that I am heading in the right direction. It is so nice to be free.
is there a particular belief/doctrine that really burns you up and makes you wonder how people could believe this, and did you as a loyal jw at one time believe in it (your most hated belief), what made you change your mind ???.
for me, i always enjoy reading the history of the watchtower (1879-1974), and how things constantly change from year to year.
the sodom and gomorrah question is hilarious .
Who is mediator between God and man? Is it Christ? Is it the Governing Body? Is it the 1440,000 or the earthly remnant thereof? What does the Bible say versus what the WTS says in the WT magazine?
Prove 1914, 1919 and 1935 using only the Bible.
The generation that was alive during 1914 has passed away. There may be some oldtimers left but by and large and by Biblical standards that generation is gone.
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i hope you didn't come in here just because you thought you would see something smutty.bad people.
my wife,still a faithfull loyal dub just walked around the corner on me when i had this site open.i hastily closed every thing down which of course made her very suspicious.i hinted around that i had something up that i didn't think she should see.being a good dub and what with the "dangers" of the internet being featured in almost every mag she at once jumped to the conclusion i was on a porn site.. little did she know it was much,much worse than that but i don't think i will fill her in on what i am really up to.
I leave this site open to go to if someone walks in while I'm viewing porn. It's all about your priorities.
i grew up in the late 70's, early 80's.
i remember hearing the first rap song called 'rapper's delight' by the sugar hill gang.
then came kurtis blow and grand master flash and the furious five.
It's funny that people like to attack Rap music for the "message" Rap music sends out. But glorify people like Johnny Cash who recorded a song called 'Folsom Prison Blues"...Let's take a look at some of the lyrics of what is considered to be a "Classic"........." Well I shot a man in Reno.....Just to watch him die" (loud cheers from the audience).
The context of violence in songs like Johnny Cash's opposed to a lot of the "violent" songs of today is different. When you listen to a Cash song, you sense that he(or his character in the song) knew that what he did was wrong and often time in the song paid the consequences.
From his first album under Rick Rubin, the song Delia sings about how if he had not shot her he would have made her his wife and the first shot didn't kill her but the second round did. But later in the song he speaks to the jailor, so we know that he is paying the price for his mistake. We sense the anquish and regret in his voice.
A lot of songs today seem to want to justify the violence used. They rationalize the actions taken as doing nothing wrong and as the only course available. Thus it glorifys the violence and mayhem portrayed in the music.
All that aside though, a lot of hardliner JWs or elders would want to discourage you from listening to Johnny Cash either due to the violence in his music or because he sang gospel from time to time or because of his relationship with Billy Graham.
hello fellow screen junkies,.
i have had a number of messages in recent days concerned about my posting style having changes in recent weeks.
as you may note i have become a little more combative in my replies of late and have imbued a new sense of tenacity when dealing with certain issues.
....I have noticed that a regular diet of WTS bashing can make one sickly and withered and unable to see both sides of an issue.
Excellent point. I agree. The more I dwell on the issues the more ill I become. Not ill as in physically sick but mentally upset. When I avoid all things WT I feel better. As I break away from the WTS, I feel I will also have to put it all behind me and not dwell on it. In turn my time spent here will be less than before.
You see, chanting in unison and wearing the correct tribal clothes, is no substitute for reasoned argument that sees both sides of any issue. For an argument developed on a sound basis leads to growth, one that is not, leads to further ignorance.In the interests of truth it behooves someone to break the mold and actually present other sides of the WTS issue. For example, I recently and deliberately challenged, at great length I might add, the absurd assumption that all or most elders were ?unloving and uncaring?. A generalization that could only be sustained by prejudice and not by fact and universal experience.
I have to agree with this also. Using this same example of elders, I too know of good, caring elders as well as sorry, dumb, uncaring elders. But because I know some sorry elders doesn't make them all bad. So sometimes when I see posts that lump all JWs or all elders or all whatever into a single unflattering mold, I feel that fairness isn't being displayed. That's not to say that even the good elders aren't guilty of mis-leading people. But they are mislead as we were mislead. Some care, some think they're doing the right thing. Same with the regular joe dubya. They, as a group, aren't bad people. They aren't what they think they are, but who is? By being fair and defending against obvious prejudiced statements is not defending the religion or it's self proclaimed brothers of Christ, but it helps all of us keep a balanced view of the underlings who have been deceived and mislead.
when a contract is drafted, it starts with a glossary of terms, so that both parties know exactly what they are agreeing to.
the wts, however, has created it's own terms with special meanings, which completely change the meaning of their direction.
a consequence of this, is that to the uniniaiated, their materials appear fairly innocuous.
She was probably "counseled". Which of course means, "you shouldn't have done that. You have brought reproach on Jehovah's organization".
i was talking to my dad this weekend and he mentioned that the jws in his congregation and others were planning to rent out a park pavilion and throw a party for a guy to cheer him up because he's been pretty sad after his wife died a few months ago.. first thought was, after hearing all the stories about how cold and heartless the jws can be, here was one example of them seeming to show some genuine concern.. of course, not to let them off the hook entirely, this guy was pretty well known.
i've been away from it for a while and he wasn't part of our hall so i don't remember his resume all that well, but i'm certain he was an elder and i think has at least a couple of sons who are elders and i think he played a big role in helping run conventions.
your average non-ms, non-elder, isn't very likely to get a pavilion full of friends.. i give them credit for showing concern, but there are a lot of people who also need help and fall through the cracks.
Let's be fair. Most of the average JWs are caring, thoughtful people. Years ago, congregations had lots of social activities to "encourage" each other and to have fellowship outside of the "world". But over time, the WTS slowly killed anyone's desire to have these social activities due to whoever held the event being "responsible" for any and all problems that may arise. In effect they killed any joy the friends had by having these events. In the past, I remember everyone getting together to help any elderly ones or poor ones do work on their house or help them move. When someone in the congregation moved, it was a congregation event. Everyone showed up. But due to the WTS constant yammering and nagging about being in the ministry, people slowly tired of trying to get 10-20 hours of service, work on somebody else's house, help somebody load a truck for moving and then clean and repair their own home. They just couldn't do it. Since their salvation depends on knocking on doors, they put that first and everything else comes second or third. As time as passed we see that the WTS has done exactly the opposite of what Jesus said he was going to do. Remove their yoke. The WTS has added burdens on the friends along with guilt for not doing it all.
when a contract is drafted, it starts with a glossary of terms, so that both parties know exactly what they are agreeing to.
the wts, however, has created it's own terms with special meanings, which completely change the meaning of their direction.
a consequence of this, is that to the uniniaiated, their materials appear fairly innocuous.
Regarding the voting issue, our CO said that it was a matter of conscience only in those countries where voting is mandatory. He proceeded to point out that since voting is not mandatory in this country it is not a matter of conscience and we are not allow to vote.
First of all, you'll never see in print(modern era, anyway) where JWs aren't "allowed" to vote or be in the army. It's always worded in a way that "a Christian's conscience would prevent him from getting involved in the world's politics or wars". That way it's each individual's decision and not forced upon him by the religion but at the same time it plays on the mind of the believer to make him believe that it is wrong and they should not do it. Legal crap to stay out of court, I'm sure.
Now as for the matter of it's a conscience matter for JWs in one country but not another: Ya mean someone in Australia or where ever voting is required can, by their own conscience, go and vote, but for people in the States they "can't" vote without repurcussions? What a load of horse @#$%. What about "we obey God as ruler rather than man"? If God says no voting for Americans then I'm sure he means it for Australians. Reverse that. If it's okay for Australians to vote then it's okay for Americans to vote. What about Daniel and the three Hebrews? What if they used their conscience and decided to bow down? Then God wouldn't have had to send an angel down to save their asses. Nice of em to stick up for him and all, but hey, why stir up trouble if it's not that big of a deal?
we were always being told that we must be careful not to "stumble" others.
we were instructed to think about the consciences of others.
was there anything that used to bother your conscience that now doesn't?
What bothered my conscience? For me the question could be, "whtt bothered my conscience because certain things didn't bother my conscience?" Does that make sense?
I watched R-rated movies. No conscience bothering there. But then there would be a talk or assembly part about not watching them. Then I was bothered because I didn't seem to see the problem.
I liked to drink. Never to absolute drunkeness but sometimes too much. Didn't bother my conscience until the part on drinking too much. Again it bothered me that it didn't bother me.
I liked porn and pics of hot babes, which usually led to masturbation. Same deal. Didn't feel remorse or conscience stricken. Then there would be the part about masturbating being wrong. Then I would question myself as to why I didn't feel bad about doing it.
Looking back on it, I think that maybe the WTS didn't have a complete hold on my mind as they did others or as they wished they had on all their followers. I don't think that I ever was a "spiritual" person, despite being raised a witness. I think some people need spirituality in their lives more than others and they seek that while others have a way of coping with life as it is, without wondering if there is something better or greater. Now that I am free of the control of any religion, I feel that I don't need religion or God to be happy. I now doubt the validity of the Bible as God's word. I doubt the existance of a God, or a god as the churches like to preach about.
I am free but imprisoned at the same time. Free from the control of a oppressive religion but not free from the ramifications for leaving that way of life. I am looked down on and shunned by some. I am hounded by elders. Some of my family question my sanity. That bothers me more than any "sin" that I committed as a JW.
dear stacy, i had heard of this accusation against jehovah's witnesses before and i asked one of our elders to explain this again.
about 20 - 25 years ago, the watch tower society obtained access to u.n. information by obtaining permission.
this was non-governmental thus non-political and non compromising.
So l et us please, from now on, focus on what the Bible says. I no longer want to discuss false accusations from a Disfellowed or Misinformed individual. I certainly do not want my family to be mislead by non-Biblical teachings or be influenced by Un-Godly persons who's objective is to mislead rather than enlighten. Let us consider the source and adhere to what the the highest authority has to say, Jehovah God, through his Word the Bible. These accusations are designed to destroy faith and not build up faith in any way. They have nothing to offer.
Since most JWs won't(or can't) think for themselves on certain issues, like the UN scandal or the child abuse situations, take her up on her offer. Focus on what the Bible says vesus what JWs teach. There is enough doctrinal flip-flopping and mistakes to keep both of you busy arguing, er, debating the issues for quite sometime.
The few discussions that I have had, I stay away from the UN scandal and like things. It becomes a "he said, she said" type thing. The thing is, even if you show them the letters from both the WTS and the UN, they'll claim they're faked and you can't really prove they aren't unless you have originals. They'll claim that it's an apostate conspiracy against the WTS. So I don't bother with that stuff. I stick with doctrinal issues such as proving 1914 as the date Jesus returned. Prove 1919 and 1935. What happened to the belief that Armageddon would come before the generation of 1914 would die? What about all the predictions that were made that didn't come true? What about what Galations teaches about Christian freedom versus "traditions of men" and Pharisaical(?) rulings from the WTS? These are Bible issues. Make her prove her case with the Bible and the Bible only.
