Posts by warehouse

35

Elderettes?

by mellojello in

hey everyone i'm new here.

i'm not baptised but i've been qoute on qoute 'studying' for the past 4-5 years.

i'm almost 20. i've been lurking and i've seen a lot of posts about elderettes.

Will firing the DOs be the first step to a new Watchtower?

by Juan Viejo2 in

against my better judgement, i've decided to share the following as a response to guy pierce passing and the announcement of the elimination of district overseers later this year.. late in january (2014) i got an email from one of my contacts (a fader) who served at bethel for several years, but is no longer at wt hq.

he still has a lot of close contacts within the service department and in other departments at patterson and knows people in all of the ny offices.

i kept this email set aside on a flash drive and haven't shared it with anyone - figuring i'd publish an article about it later this year when i had more time to do it right.

warehouse

Roddy wrote:

Either way it will cause the COs to be more affiliated with the congregations than with the WTS company, the congregations to becoming more autonomous, and the local body of elders to becoming more powerful and autonomous within their congregations.

Your ignorance to the current timetable of events aside, the above statement is possibly the most astute and accurate description of what is likely to happen.

As has been mentioned on this forum, if we look at the setup in the first century, there is no DO position. You have the governing body, traveling ministers, local overseers, and congregations. Paul's position relied mainly on his own finances and the local congregations to support him. He also had more weight in making descisions, most of the time not even consulting the the body in Jerusalem. If the JW organization wants to mimic this heirarchy, the elimination of DO is a step towards that goal.

I would not be surprised if the circuits get broken up further into smaller sets of congregations. Currently my circuit is made up of 24 congregations. If our CO gets to each hall twice a year, that's 48 weeks, and leaves just 4 weeks free. This leaves little margin for error, or any significant time off for the CO. If the circuit were to be only 18 congregations, or even 15, you could have more visits from from the CO at certain halls that need additional direction/management, while allowing the CO more time off as well.

What could also happen, possibly, is an assistant/training CO position to come about. Since we have these extra former DOs, you could have two, even three COs for one circuit. This gives better opportunity for COs to be trained thoroughly, in the congregations, on the ground, in the field. The assistant/training CO can help in a variety of ways, as did Timothy with Paul; ie. give talks, handle idiotic judicial comittees, etc. The CO is freed up to make sure congregations are covering their territories, appointing the RIGHT men, and generally having better visability on the spiritual health of the circuit.

172

Are You Raising An Introvert?

by darth frosty in

jw
friends

its not easy being an introvert in an extrovert worldespecially when youre a kid.

it is even more difficult if none of the adults in the kids life recognize that the child is an introvert.

this doesnt happen only when the childs parents are extroverts, but also with introverted parents who have never understood their own introverted nature.. .

warehouse

darth,

lol, along with tornapart's comment, the very last caption made me lol! Also, now that I think about it, Picard is an introvert, and Kirk is an extrovert, which is why when asked which one, I always pick Picard. Ha, makes sense!

172

Are You Raising An Introvert?

by darth frosty in

jw
friends

its not easy being an introvert in an extrovert worldespecially when youre a kid.

it is even more difficult if none of the adults in the kids life recognize that the child is an introvert.

this doesnt happen only when the childs parents are extroverts, but also with introverted parents who have never understood their own introverted nature.. .

warehouse

a watcher wrote:

I refuse some privileges because it would mean too much contact with others. CAs and RCs are uncomfortable for me, but I go to encourage my friends.

I know exactly how you feel. I've refused privileges for almost the same reason. I can't bear to hear my name announced from the platform, and just thinking about the congratulatory phase afterwards makes me feel like someone is scraping their nails down a chalkboard. Also, when I ask the elders, "what convinces you that I have holy spirit operating upon me" they can't seem to enunciate an appropriate answer, or if I ask "what do you think I can work on?" they say, "oh wow, nothing, you're doing great", which is epic lies because EVERYONE has something they can work on or improve.

CA and RC/DC are daunting for me. Thankfully I am a brother, and usually I am in an assignment, so I can hang around in an office or a department and take cover during the sensory-overload social hours. Talks are great because one person is speaking at a time, which allows me great reflection time, and I can zone out if the speaker starts parroting hearsay or otherwise engaging in unobjective organizational suppositions.

172

Are You Raising An Introvert?

by darth frosty in

jw
friends

its not easy being an introvert in an extrovert worldespecially when youre a kid.

it is even more difficult if none of the adults in the kids life recognize that the child is an introvert.

this doesnt happen only when the childs parents are extroverts, but also with introverted parents who have never understood their own introverted nature.. .

warehouse

jgnat, thanks for the reference! I have to get that, and the book Quiet that Xanthippe is reading as well

172

Are You Raising An Introvert?

by darth frosty in

jw
friends

its not easy being an introvert in an extrovert worldespecially when youre a kid.

it is even more difficult if none of the adults in the kids life recognize that the child is an introvert.

this doesnt happen only when the childs parents are extroverts, but also with introverted parents who have never understood their own introverted nature.. .

warehouse

Darth,

First of all, thanks for bumping this old and good thread, and posting those articles. I myself am an INTJ. Not only do I struggle with my introversion because of the parasitic nature of extroverts, but I also find difficulty with my strong judging aspect. As a judger, I seek closure, definite plans, and concrete actions. This is in direct contrast with the perceiver type that can keep their options open, multi-task effortlessly, do mindless repetitive tasks, and can talk aimlessly for hours about absolutely nothing.

Being a JW does absolutely nothing to help me in these areas. I find myself drained and exhausted after each meeting, and in recent years assemblies and conventions have become chaotic events that need a weeks preparation for me to produce enough energy to offset what I will inevitably loose at these occasions. And field service??? LOLOLOLOL, I've never, and don't think ever in the future will I posses a zeal, exuberance, or honest desire for the “organizational ministry”. Dating is another epic fail zone for me. Not only am I part of a zealot based elitist religion that views marriage as dishonorable, but I have no desire or appetite for the endless and quite often ambiguous dating rituals. I couldn’t small talk a chick, even if my life depended on it. Oh well, there’s always porn . . . lots and lots of porn . . . so sad.

Don’t fret, there is a very positive side to all of this, and I’ve only really appreciated it recently, though if I look back on my life it has been there the whole time. In the second article posted by Darth at the outset of this thread, it enumerates five key areas where introverts excel, and these five areas translate into JW leadership gold. Since the majority of R&F are made up of leeching extroverts who can’t create, need constant stimulus, and are fanatical about upholding all the pharisaical rules of the organization, they ultimately fail at spiritual progression (Heb 5:12). They don’t meditate, reflect, hold their words, have patience, or true discernment (Prov 10:19). I’d say the majority of the CO/elder/ministerial servant group is extroverts concerned with an outward display of faith (Mark 12:38-40).

Now enter the introvert. I have built an INSANE amount of respect, and dare I say even awe, by saying just one or two things (Isa 50:4). I have found that it is indeed an impressive thing to use silence to judge, and draw out peoples ideas and thoughts (Prov 20:5). When I read the Bible from the platform, I can hear a goddamn PIN drop in the back lobby. By precisely timing very carefully thought out comments, a bland watchtower discussion and an aimless conductor are suddenly invigorated with ideas, and encouragement (1Cor 9:26). And when I read threads like this that highlight value of introverts, I can’t help from feeling a certain ping of responsibility because I know I too am introverted and sensitive (Jas 3:13). So for all of my complaining and worries, I feel that as an introvert, my strengths greatly outweigh my weaknesses, especially when it comes to leading by example, and encouraging others. As you can see, I have reflected on myself and the bible very closely, intimately, as a lot of introverts are sure to be able to do. Through the struggles of being associated with the WTBS and all it’s nonsense, my personal life and everything, the words at Jas 1:22-25 have always helped me, and those around me.

I would love to hear others comments on being an introvert, especially if you are still in the JW religion, and even more so if you were born in. Thanks for taking the time to read this, (and the scriptures if you even bothered . . . pssh, I know, the bible, right?) Feel free to give your opposing views as well; I only progress when I listen to and embrace strong, logical criticism.

24

Are MOST JW's lacking Moral Fibre ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

i find that whether born in or converts, most jw's give their own conscience over to the gb (and writing dept) to dictate how they will react to any moral question.. they simply lack a conscience of their own.. this is not their fault, we should not look down on them for this, their conscience, their natural feeling of what is right and wrong has been:.

stolen from them !.

we all know how the cult does this to them, it did it to us, i really am almost in tears when i think that had either of my darling children needed a blood transfusion i would have resisted, believing what i have been taught all my life, that their eternal life was more important than their life now.. how can we persuade jw's to take back their conscience ?.

warehouse

Phizzy wrote:

Thanks Warehouse for pointing out my intemperate use of words in the O.P

This was really to catch attention on here, I would never express myself thus to a JW, I know how I reacted when members of the public said similar things to me, it did not open my mind, rather it triggered the cult defensive mode.

Oh, I could tell you were pissed, lol

13

Wife says "John 17:3 is just like Christendom's translations!"

by leaving_quietly in

she downloaded the jw library app which has the parallel versions of a verse, and upon looking at john 17:3, she said the above to me.

i wonder if this will start causing chinks in the armor for many jws, especially when they look up john 14:14 or rev.

5:10. the months ahead should be interesting..

warehouse

DATA-DOG wrote:

So they leak the information themselves to fill a vacuum of their own making. They praise the older GB for the NWT while unvieling the RNWT.

I was just thinking the other day that the change to GB=FDS was VERY convienient to the release of the RNWT. It sure does enable them to give themselves an immediate and shameless pat on the back.

34

The relationship between the Father and Son. What's your opinion?

by DATA-DOG in

i am curious about this.

ever since i realized that there is no proof that jesus=michael the archangel, i wondered about who jesus was.

that's how i think of the father and the son, or the word.

warehouse

warehouse wrote:

but I thought I'd just throw these two scriptures out there, and see what everyone thinks of them:
John 17 (yes, the entire 26 verses)

Hebrews 5:1-10

I'll post my own thoughts tomorrow after the annual meeting . . . lol, if anyone is even cares then.

After I read the entire 17th chapter of John, I can only come to the conclusion that God the Father and Jesus his Son are two distinct entities, both of whom can exist separate from each other and make independent decisions. The glory in vs 5 is the same glory in vs 22 and vs 24. So even the apostles are capable of attaining this glory (to a degree, I guess that's a separate topic for debate).

I can agree with Jesus and Jehovah being the same individual. If all of Jehovah's dealings with the Israelites, Moses, Abraham, and Adam/Eve is really Jesus, then ok, that makes sense as long as above and beyond this scenario the existence of a higher being than Jesus/Jehovah is recognized.

The reason that God the Father must exist is found at Hebrews 5:1-10. These verses for me have always proven that Jesus did not, and could not glorify himself. If he did, then his role as a king/priest is null and void.

This is how I understand it, at least from the perspective that the Bible is true and accurate and the word of God the Father and/or Jesus.

24

Are MOST JW's lacking Moral Fibre ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

i find that whether born in or converts, most jw's give their own conscience over to the gb (and writing dept) to dictate how they will react to any moral question.. they simply lack a conscience of their own.. this is not their fault, we should not look down on them for this, their conscience, their natural feeling of what is right and wrong has been:.

stolen from them !.

we all know how the cult does this to them, it did it to us, i really am almost in tears when i think that had either of my darling children needed a blood transfusion i would have resisted, believing what i have been taught all my life, that their eternal life was more important than their life now.. how can we persuade jw's to take back their conscience ?.

warehouse

Bungi Bill wrote:

This forum is not necessesarily only about helping those still in the JW religion, so I would not be too hard on Phizzy!

Don't get me wrong, I love Phizzy, and want to help him. But sometimes venting turns into pontificating, which then evolves into prejudice, and before you know it, the golden calf of JW dogma/close-mindedness is being celebrated by the very ones who left.