Posts by FreeWilly

16

Yet Another Deceptive Awake (10/22)

by metatron in

jw
friends

the 'awake' magazine never misses an opportunity to project the thought that.

the world is frightening - and hopeless.

the latest (oct.22,2002) is no excception.. on the final page inside, it quotes from a review of a book called "inviting disater -.

FreeWilly

I remember reading that WT was threatened with a lawsuit by a theologin/scholar. Dr Mantey of "Dana and Mantey's manual of Greek Grammar. If you look at an older (Purple cover) Kingdom interlinear appendix it has quotes from him and others that appear to support WT's translation of John 1:1 etc. Dr. Mantey wrote a scathing letter to WT citing, among other things, the "judicious cutting" methods that they use to support their arguments. Basically they would quote portions of a sentance and leave out the parts that they don't like. Whenever you see the " ... " in a WT magazine you know they left something important out! Anyway WT apparently took out any reference to Dr Mantey's work (and other grammarians) in their newer (Blue cover) version of the Kingdom interlinear. I think others got together and threatened to sue WT too if they continued to misrepresent their works.

Funny huh?

32

XJWs what do U do with your TIME now

by QUEENIE in

jw
friends

what do you all do with your free time now guys..like hobbies and what not..like you pioneers there is 75 hrs you have to play around with if you know what i mean not to mention meetings and bible studying etc.

please do share !!!

(((((hugs)))) queenie

FreeWilly

I've started a Surf cult.

Every morning we review the surf report and discuss how it might apply in our life. We then spend a few hours each week out in the Surf discussing what we've learned with others. We think of thought provoking questions to ask others such as "Have you ever longed to live in a world where you can surf in perfect health every day of the year?" Catchy huh? We then point them to our surf travel guide and tell them how they too can share in this wonderful privilege. We make sure to keep accurate records of every new face we meet. We call it the "surf-face" report. We also have meetings with these new ones. You guessed it, they are called "surf-face" meetings. And from time to time we will surf the same spot over and over to see if there is anything we may have overlooked. We are beginning to see more and more "no-trespassing" signs but we just blow right through them!

We all know water rescue techniques which is absolutely necessary since we are involved in a life saving work. We had several members at one time but a few have left to pursue boogie boarding. We think "independent thinking" is to blame and avoid them at all costs. We try to encourage all we meet. With all of the shark attacks that we've been hearing lately we know that surfers just need some encouragement. We explain to them why they happen - "The whole ocean is lying in the power of the wicked fin" (symbolic for Great White Shark)

Oh yeah, we take donations! Please let me know if you'd like to contribute to the World Wide Surfing Cult.

Freewilly

AKA the Faithful and Discrete Surfer

41

Is the death penalty effective in usa?

by haujobbz in

jw
friends

.

im asking this because lately in the uk 2 girls were murdered that were only 12 yrs old and now 59% population of the uk want the death penalty reinstated.. i assume you already have the death penalty in the usa, but do you think it is effective reducing 1st degree murder and potential child molesters,would you like to see the death penalty removed in the united states or not.. i wonder if the death penalty will be reinstated in the uk what do you think, personally i dont think it will maybe the politicians are afraid they wont get as many votes.

FreeWilly

Interesting question Englishman

I think the crime rate is greater per head of household here because our pubs here in the USA are nowhere near the quality of those in England! All the local bars around my neighborhood have New Castle on tap - no crime here. Are we on to something here?

Seriously though, Crime rates do vary from culture to culture. Japan is a country where even criminals still abide by a honor system of sorts. In the US drugs have sponsored all sorts of violent crimes. Additionally the Gangster image is revered among many inner city youths. I think its very difficult to measure a direct cause and effect of the death penalty across borders. I think it would perhaps be more accurate to focus on statistics (yawn) before and after the death penalty was enacted - within a single country. Even then its a pretty daunting task. Some have suggested that the USA's overall decreasing crime trend can be directly tied to the Supreme Courts decision on abortion in the early 70's (Roe vs Wade). Now there's one to talk about.

BTW I do remember reading a paper that noted the direct corellation of recent increasing violent crime rates in the UK with the implementation of restrictive private citizen gun ownership laws. Similar trends have been noted in Canada and Australia. I know its a little off topic, but had to mention it.

41

Is the death penalty effective in usa?

by haujobbz in

jw
friends

.

im asking this because lately in the uk 2 girls were murdered that were only 12 yrs old and now 59% population of the uk want the death penalty reinstated.. i assume you already have the death penalty in the usa, but do you think it is effective reducing 1st degree murder and potential child molesters,would you like to see the death penalty removed in the united states or not.. i wonder if the death penalty will be reinstated in the uk what do you think, personally i dont think it will maybe the politicians are afraid they wont get as many votes.

FreeWilly

Increased crime rates is a natural and predictable result of removing guns from private citizens. The implications IMO are rather obvious. The odds have been dramatically tipped in favor of the armed criminals (who, being criminal will not surrender their guns). Private citizens, in the face of an armed opponent, have no other option - they become an easy victim. Jail house polls have repeatedly shown that a primary fear among criminals is the possibility being shot by a citizen or officer during their crime. Statistically it has been shown that where gun rights has been reinstated, violent crimes were reduced. It ties in rather nicely with the whole theme of deterence. The vast majority of criminals do not want to die as a result of their behavior.

!! Besides, do criminals actually think they are going to get caught??? Of course not! So obviously there is no such thing as true deterence.

Criminals almost always take advance precautions to prevent their discovery and capture. The simple act of donning a mask clearly illustrates that. The vast majority of crimnals do not want to suffer the legal consequences of their behavior either.

Both of these "fears" can be used to deter crime. Case in point. After hurricaine Andrew hit south Miami wholesale looting immediatlely followed. Why? The chances of capture/arrest was extremely low. This behavior WAS previously deterred by the probabilty of arrest. The absence of that probability directly resulted in criminal behavior - even by those who otherwise would not have considered it. What deterred these crimes? Those private citizens who immediately armed themselves and protected their property had little problems with theives. Further, when a greater law enforcement presence was established wholesale looting almost immediatly ceased

Deterence works. Its the reason why YOU will surrender you money even if you feel it was unjustly taxed. You don't want to risk jail time and neither do I.

Edited by - Freewilly on 26 August 2002 17:38:52

Edited by - Freewilly on 26 August 2002 17:50:7

119

To spank or not to spank?

by Nowhere in

i had a conversation with an active witness from the usa lately.

and when talking about child upbringing he stated that some children need a spank sometimes.

of course i was upset because of that, and i didn't thought witnesses was that stupid.

FreeWilly

I fall in with the "Spank only if necessary" group.

One aspect that hasn't been brought out is the primary reason we have the sensory response of "pain". "Pain" i.e. a smack on the ass, will remind us that a certain action or behaivior is detrimental to us. Yes it can be abuse, yes can be a form of "venting" for the parent and yes if implmented excessively or illogically it will cause harm. So can many other aspects of parenting such as mental abuse, verbal abuse,lack of love, etc.

But, If a child is running out in the street after repeated admonishions from his/her parent, a smack on the ass teaches a much softer lesson that the smack of a car bumper. A childs perception of right/wrong, cause/effect and the consequences of certain behavior is severely lacking at the early stages of life. They do not always have the ability to reason on their behavior. A spank will often penetrate those barriers when reasoning fails in future situations.

This concept does not always fit into a utopian mindset, but hey if you want that I'll send a JW friend of mine over, he'll hook you right up.

48

DISPROVE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE

by minimus in

jw
friends

one of the most ingrained things for long time witnesses to change their viewpoint on is the fds.

i believe that due to the constant information at the meetings, conventions, publications and elder's talks, the doctrine of the faithful slave is pounded into everyone's heads.once a person sees the misunderstanding of this teaching, it's easier to critically see the wrongness of the watchtower.

can you suggest easier, less complicated rebuttals to this doctrine?

FreeWilly

Oh btw Hi all, I'm relatively new here. I've been reading on for months though.

Minimus: I had to kinda corner my B-lite friend. We talked on allot of subjects. Basically he conceded to many doubts including the faithful slave. Apparently the doubts aren't enough to free him from it all though. I have found that most aren't all that concerned about the truth of things. Many will refuse to let a fact or a clear disproof change them. It would turn their entire spiritual, emotion, social and family life upside down all at once. It must be a mental defense mechanism. My hope is that it will at the very least moderate him.

Blonde: Hi You are right, most JWs are taken off gaurd if you present this to them. First off many don't know the conveluted FDS definition.

It goes like this. FDS = annointed on earth as a group. The "Food" is the publications etc. The "Domestics" that they serve this crap to are ALSO the annointed, but this time as individuals. (hows that for circular reasoning)

I remember at Pioneer school our pompus condecending CO had to explain this about 5 times! There is a section in COC on it. Nobody disects it better.

Nice Meetin everyone.

18

Hello...looking for some experiences

by Waido in

jw
friends

i am the mother of a 25yr.

old daughter...she has broken off her engagement to her young man..after discovering that they have a few differences in beliefs...she is sick at heart and so am i..after a year of dating they got engaged...then a year later..she dicovers he is an inactive jw...they lived together...and she has a two year old baby..he is not the father...but he is a wonderful man..and really was very good to her and my grandson...my grandson calls him daddy...well the issures started popping up...all of the sudden...he is a jw...and he doesnt celebrate...anything...not so much said..as he doesnt show for the festivities...sort of passive restance...long story short..they started discussing..issures..and my daughter freaks over the not accepting transfusions...her precious baby...not save his life!!

!...she is not a staunch christian...but she has absorbed beleifs having been raised in my church...now she is laying here with tears...and trying to figure out how they can make this work....he says that she can raise the baby in her beilfs...and they could just each beleive what they beleive...she is in that same mode..her heart hurts..and she wants to figure out a way that all this will work...she keeps asking me...she is twenty-five...i am her monther...i am heartsick...i want my daughters happiness...for the long haul...we discussed about the words warning of being unevenly yoked...i was hoping prehaps she could get some of your experinces....and your insight....thank you....

FreeWilly

Hi Waido,
I have first hand experience in this area. I was an inactive JW dating someone who had no idea. We went on the idea that we could have a relationship with seperate beliefs. We got engaged. At the same time I stated getting back with the JWs. We broke up a year later. Its wishful thinking to think that they will be able to have a loving relationship and not be affected by the JWs. It will have a profound effect on her life. Two things will happen if they decide to stay together.

Scenario 1
Your daughter will eventually accept the JWs& teachings if for no other reason that they will become her friends and social base. This is perhaps the #1 reason people become witnesses. For her child, an awkward warped childhood awaits. For you, you will eventually fit in the catagory of "worldly" and association with you could (depending on your daughter) become infrequent and awkward. If you are reading this and are saying "oh no, not my daughter" don't be a fool. We've all seen it happen too many times. More than anything else, the JW religion is known for splitting families apart. Its happened in my famlily, my wifes family and many people we know. Its subtle persistant and effective at it.

Scenario 2
Your Daughters boyfriend will use this opportunity to examine his beliefs. With the right outlook he may just discover the truth about them and refrain from diving in head first. He was inactive so its safe to say that he is not staunch or unyielding in his belief system yet. She must REQUIRE this reexamination of his beliefs as a condition of their relationship. She must be firm yet reasonable. It really is that important.

Others have recommended some very good web sites for information. Do a little homework. I highly recommend that your daughter purchase the book "Crisis of Conscience" (availible at Freeminds.org) and she REQUIRE that he reads it before making any other decisions about their religion or relationship. Make that book availible to him. Feel free to email me ( or he/she can email me too) with any questions or advice.
FreeWilly

26

JWs at Hearst Castle

by concerned mama in

jw
friends

my family and i just got home from our summer road trip.

we drove 6815 km from our home in alberta down the western coast of the us to disneyland, then back home through utah (mormon country), idaho and montana.

great trip!!!!

FreeWilly

I saw them there too! They had their literature spread out on a little card table at the visitors center. I bet all the pioneers fight over that assignment. All you have to do is sit there and let the time roll in! I've also seen them at an outlet mall doing the same thing. Easy money... uuh I mean easy service time! I think Ruby should set up her table right next to them with big bold pamplets on help for JW pedophile victims and cult issues. Wouldn't that be something!

67

Ozzie's Weekend Poll #17

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

how's the weekend goin'?

been too busy to think on really serious things?

that's good, because this poll doesn't require too much thinking!!

FreeWilly

OK I have a couple

1) Encouragement - Thats when the bookstudy conductor calls and reminds you that you've been missing too many meetings. Or if the Elders see you talking to one of your own familiy members that they DF'd, they will offer Encouragement to help you ingnore you own family. How.... encouraging!

2) Spiritual Food It used to bug the crap out of me when I would hear these eager beaver Bethelites go on and on about " the tastey morsels from jehovahs bounteous table that provides vital nourishment .....oh joy " (excuse me while I hurl some Witness stew)!

48

DISPROVE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE

by minimus in

jw
friends

one of the most ingrained things for long time witnesses to change their viewpoint on is the fds.

i believe that due to the constant information at the meetings, conventions, publications and elder's talks, the doctrine of the faithful slave is pounded into everyone's heads.once a person sees the misunderstanding of this teaching, it's easier to critically see the wrongness of the watchtower.

can you suggest easier, less complicated rebuttals to this doctrine?

FreeWilly

Minimus,

I happen to believe it is possible toPROVE that the societies teaching on the FDS is not true. Basically Crisis of conscience lays it out evenly.

1) FDS definition = all anointed on Earth as a group (according to the WT).

2) The "Spiritual food" = publications, talk outlines and other misc propaganda from the WT.

Ask them to define exactly what is the FDS. Ask them what is the exact mechanism that the "annointed" old ladies and old men scattered around planet use to have input into the publications. Do they communicate with Headquarters via phone? internet? fax? telepathy? The truth is that they do not have any input at all! (OK I know everyone here knows this stuff). If the little old men/ladies scattered around the planet are the FDS then something is very wrong with the spiritual food. Ask them if they ever heard of a little old anointed brother having any imput into an WT article. The FDS teaching has no resemblance with reality whatsoever. This is a fact that's not too hard to establish. I actually made this point with a Bethelite friend of mine recently. He conceded.