FreeWilly

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Posts by FreeWilly

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  12

  My email with a whacked out dub!

  by FreeWilly in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  steve:.

  steve:.

  steve:.

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  FreeWilly

  Yep, this is the beloved Steve Kle***** were talking with! What a tool, and not a very sharp one. It's kinda like trying to have a rational conversation with the town drunk.

  I think I'm going to start making fun of him.
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  12

  My email with a whacked out dub!

  by FreeWilly in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  steve:.

  steve:.

  steve:.

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  FreeWilly

  I received a few emails from JW's angry at the feedback that I left regarding the MSN news story about JW's repairing roofs for fellow JW's. These are some snippits from my coorespondance with one of them. This guy's precious! It sounds like he has been here on this board. He calls everyone here "evil and mean".

  I suggest one of you formulate a reply. Whoever has the best reply, I'll forward and see what kind of response it gets. This should be fun!
  

  
  

  Freewilly:
  
  I understand that ones religion can be a very personal attachment, but I think you might be better served if you are able to view it objectively and critically. "Critical thinking" is often confused with negative "criticism". Rather Critical thinking is the ability to remove yourself from your own bias, tendencies and preconceived notions.

  You (Steve) said "What is wrong with God destroying bad people?"

  This is an interesting point. If you look back in history, some of the most notorious crimes against humanity we able to happen because a leader or group was able to convince others that their victims were wicked, stupid or otherwise inferior. I think you might just ask yourself if it's reasonable to conclude the 99.9% of people on Earth are "Bad".
  
  * How many hundreds of millions of these people are children?
  
  * Exactly what is it that makes these people beyond help, and needing to be killed?
  
  * Surely you realize that this would be the worst genocide ever conceived -- right?

  I don't want to argue about it. Maybe you could just ask yourself "Why"? When that village in China is confronted by an angry Angel, what will the reason the Angel gives them for the death sentence? Could you kill almost all of you children and still consider yourself a "Dad of Love" ?

  Steve:
  
  However it is not us that is doing the deciding or the killing. We are only giving warnings that we saw in the Bible. Disagreeing with these will not stop what God has planned.

  Freewilly:

  You (Steve) said: "After all he did that at the flood."

  That is what the story says. If a person sank a cruise liner because he didn't like the people on it would he be a hero or a criminal? Do realize that Archaeologists have found tablets from the Sumerian civilization that came before the Bible says the flood even took place? In some places the Jewish Bible writer borrows from it almost word for word! Just something to think about. I know it's easy to dismiss this type of evidence because it threatens everything you've come to know.

  Steve:
  
  The casting of doubt is the lack of faith. These many cultures have flood stories, but they say that people lived and people died.

  Freewilly:

  Steve said "He did that when the Israelites entered Canaan." (i.e killed them all)
  
  Yes, the Bible says that the Israelite armies were told to kill all the inhabitants. Why? Because God promised Abraham his descendants would inherit some prime real estate?? After all, Jehovah made no attempts at making a covenant with the Canaanites. Nor was the Mosaic law written for other nations. The Canaanites like many other peoples developed their own beliefs. Why wasn't there at least an effort to help them change there ways? Sad, if true.

  You also said: "He had the bad people destroyed." "He destroyed those who were not Jehovah's Witnesses." (as in the flood) He must be a very angry guy.

  Steve:
  
  And we should learn from that and change so that we are on God's side.

  Freewilly:
  
  Every Christian Religion believes they are the group before God in that Revelation Ch 7. You, like all of them, believe that you unique beliefs are what put you there.

  I like the way you say "That is just what the Bible teaches.". Actually the Bible calls these people "Jews" not "Jehovah's
  
  Witnesses". JW's, like all other religions, use their own brand of 'logic' to make those words apply to them.

  Steve:
  
  No, not every Christian Religion or they would be helping others. Yes our unique beliefs and practices set us apart and on God's side. So that should indicate to you that is the side to be on.

  No, the Bible does not call those people in Rev 7 Jews. It calls them "a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,"They are from all nations" just like Jehovah's Witnesses are.

  Freewilly:
  
  And remember too Steve, that your religion used to teach that these things too were "Bible Teachings":

  God resides on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades constellation and that from this star he governed the universe! - Reconciliation 1928 p.14

  Steve:
  
  No, my religion did not teach that. Judge Rutherford did and he is not my religion. And this is not from Jehovah's Witnesses is it?

  Freewilly:
  
  Two complexes (Beth-Sarim & Beth Shan) were constructed to house the resurrected heros of the Bible. - Consolation, 1942 May 27 p.9.

  Steve:
  
  No, my religion did not teach that. Judge Rutherford did and he is not
  
  my religion. And this is not from Jehovah's Witnesses is it?

  Freewilly:
  
  The "Electronic Radio Biola" was a device purported by the Watchtower Society to diagnose and treat diseases. - The Golden Age, Apr. 22, 1925, pp. 453.

  Steve:
  
  The Golden Age was Clayton Woodworth, not my religion. And this is not from Jehovah's Witnesses is it?

  Freewilly:
  
  "Drugs, serums, vaccines, and surgical operations, of the medical profession are useless" and a form or "Egyptian black magic" - The Golden Age, Aug. 5, 1931, p. 727.

  Steve:
  
  Ditto. And this is not from Jehovah's Witnesses is it?

  Freewilly:
  
  Smallpox Vaccinations "sows the seed of syphilis, cancers, escema, erysipelas, scrofula, consumption, even leprosy and many other loathsome affections" and is of no benefit. - The Golden Age, May 1, 1929, p. 502.

  Steve:
  
  Ditto And this is not from Jehovah's Witnesses is it?

  Freewilly:
  
  If a women does not scream *while she is being raped,* she is guilty of fornication!! Watchtower 1964 January 15 pp.63-4

  Steve:
  
  That is true and I agree. She should do what she can to oppose the attacker.

  Freewilly:
  
  People have *died* resisting even /alternative/ military service only to have that rule reversed years later.

  Steve:
  
  That is good as that shows faith and obedience to God. But it was not changed. It said that they could serve their term in the compulsory service in a non-military manner that does not violate neutrality. That did not change.

  Freewilly
  
  People have *died* forgoing organ transplants only to have that rule reversed years later.

  Steve:
  
  That was not changed. People died getting organ transplants until 1983 when the drug was made to protect the body from fighting the new organs. So it was not safe prior to then as the Watchtower told of it not being safe. They used Biblical reasoning and not medical reasoning, but the result was the same that people were saved.

  Freewilly:
  
  The measurements of the Pyramids of Egypt confirm 1874 as the date beginning of the last days! - Thy Kingdom Come (© 1891) (1904 edition — Millennial Dawn, vol 3) p.342

  Steve:
  
  And this is not from Jehovah's Witnesses is it?

  
  
  Freewilly:
  
  Think about it Steve.

  Steve:
  
  I did. That is why I believe as I do. I do not let the writings of man stumble me.

  Freewilly:
  
  I'd like to recommend a website that has an interesting collection of ---> Watchtower quotes. < http://quotes.watchtower.ca/ Ask yourself if this spiritual food was "directed by God" or came from the minds of men.(Psalm 146:3)

  Steve:
  
  I know that many things were from the minds of men. But Jehovah's Witnesses follow what is in the Bible.

  Freewilly:
  
  I just wanted to leave you with some encouragement. If you feel the need to discuss some of the aspects of your religion, or just have a few questions, I recommend the website www.jehovah-witness.com

  Steve:
  
  Why would I do that? Those people are not Jehovah's witnesses but yet they misappropriate that url of that name. Thus they are liars and I have presented that question to them. They are mean and evil people as anyone who says anything good about JWs or the Watchtower, they cuss and swear at them.

  Freewilly:
  
  As time marches on, the idea that we are in the "short period of
  
  time" since 1914 becomes more and more unbeleivable. Furthermore, the annointed remnant that have been "sealed" since 1935 are dwindling even faster. And of course the "generation" since 1914 has passed away. As time erodes the Society's teachings many JW's develop valid questions.

  Steve:
  
  And so what of it? In 100 years everyone living will be dead. So what is your point? Mine is that I don't like the fact that 100 years everyone living now will be dead. So I choose the bible's hope and the bible indicates that we are in the time of the end. So I don't worry or concern myself with the details that the Watchtower has published as I continue on with the hope of the Bible.

  Freewilly:
  
  I recommend you investigate those inconsistancies.

  Steve:
  
  And then do what? Correct them?

  Latar.....

  Freewilly:
  
  I so very impressed with you blind devotion and wanton abandon of logic and reason Steve.

  Steve:
  
  Devotion to what? to whom? On the contrary, I am using the utmost logic and reason.

  Freewilly:
  
  I especially like the way you cast off those things published by the "faithful and discrete slave".

  Steve:
  
  Cast them off? No, more like apply them as they were meant to be.

  Freewilly:
  
  At first read one might guess that you are just uninformed. I suspect however, that you are simply saying whatever is required for you to save face.

  Steve:
  
  Required by whom?

  Freewilly:
  
  I'm quite confident that you do not represent the Society's publications as "not Jehovah's witnesses" when you parrot your answers in the Watchtower Study.

  Steve:
  
  I never parrot the Watchtower in the studies. I always answer in my words.

  Freewilly:
  
  So let me get this straight, the Watchtower Society publications ARE NOT the spiritual food provided by Jehovah? - interesting, if not deceptive.

  Steve:
  
  They are spiritual food at the proper time. Something given in 1920 is not the proper time today.

  Freewilly:
  
  It seems you have either "run ahead" of the organization or perhaps apostatized, teaching your own brand of crack-pot theology. More likely you are making it up as you go.

  Steve:
  
  I am using logic and reason rather than your generalizations. Why don't you just say what you mean.

  Freewilly:
  
  I fear you are doomed to live the rest of your life in anticipation of the wholesale slaughter of humankind by the meglo-maniac of a God your cult has created. Thank goodness this is an unfounded myth for what kind of person would embrace this demonic belief? My only comfort is that your numbers are stagnating and dwindling in those lands with access to information about the cult.

  Steve:
  
  Our group has not created that teaching, we are only preaching it.

  Freewilly:
  
  Your comments imply we should serve him to avoid being a part of his slaughter. Many of the reluctant Nazi's went along with Hitler for similar reasons.

  Steve:
  
  As I said, in 100 years everyone living today will be dead so is that any better? Or do you not think that far ahead?

  Freewilly:
  
  I leave you to the disappointment and warped reasoning bred by your freakish, inhumane religion. It appears you relish it anyway, so it's hard to feel sorry for your plight. Not much different a belief than many of the terrorists we see so frequently on the news. Cut from the same cloth?

  Steve:
  
  As long as it is not the same as yours. You wicked and foolish imbecile. How dare you address me with such disrespect!
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  39

  What's the first thought that comes to mind when wordly people think of JWs

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i'll start........ saturday morning door knockers

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  FreeWilly

  Crack-pots! - Doomsday cult - weirdo's (Ok that's just me talking)
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  Anyone at Watchtower Farms in the late 1990's?

  by FreeWilly in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  any former bethelites from the farm in the latter 1990's?

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  FreeWilly

  Any former Bethelites from the farm in the latter 1990's?
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  183

  I'm sorry but

  by toer5777 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have not yet to find another organization in the world that is like jw.

  yes it has made mistakes, there imperfect humans, but what other organization in the world goes preaching house to house like jesus did.

  why is that jw are persecuted all over the world?

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  FreeWilly

  Toer must have mistaken this site for a laundrymat !! I wonder if he counts those as placements?
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  122

  Defeating the Atheist/Agnostics (an evolving post)

  by JasonSea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am new here and i have a special gift for you that i have been developing through heated debated with atheist/agnostics in a number of forums of this nature.

  i feel i am supposed to share this special gift primarily with jehovahs witnesses for, through my prayers, i have been extremely inspired by you.. before i enter the post i would like to experiment and get to know how this forum works.

  special edit: okay, i'm getting the hang of this very different format than i am used to.

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  FreeWilly

  Jason,

  You remind me of elementary school when one kid would insult another kid, only to degenerate into a shouting match where each are saying "prove it - prove it".

  I am Agnostic because all attempts at finding evidence (empirically or otherwise) repeatedly come up empty - End of story.

  Far from the Biblical storys, ripe with supernatural happenings, our modern reality finds nothing of the sort. Strange huh? Additionally there is compelling evidence that Bible writers have borrowed heavily from Sumerian legends when crafting their accounts. The epic of Gilgamesh pre-dates the supposed time of the Bible's flood. Oddly enough it contains accounts erily similar to those written in the Bible hundreds of years later.

  While I haven't drawn firm conclusions, I too find out genetic similarities with Chimps to be compelling. We are genetically closer to Chimps (98.3% identicle) than Chimps are to gorillas or orangatangs. We are closer to chimps genetically than horses are to Zebras. Although, unlike idiotic fundementalists, I drawn no firm conclusions from these.

  If you want to believe in an invisible friend and/or the boogey man, go right ahead. It seems to suit you.

  However, I must point out that the manner in which you arrived here, and the logic of your arguement show the mentality of a very immature mind. I would caution you on what you buy into as you seem likely to believe anything based primarily on the level of your emotional investment.
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  17

  Post DF: Trying to make friends of family

  by banished1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just got an email from my fleshly athesist brother.

  he might as well have punched me in the stomach.

  just a card would be appreciated, if i must.

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  FreeWilly

  Hi Banished1,

  Maybe you non-JW family has a few wounds of its own. Unfortunately when we became JW's we were taught that non-JW's were bad association and consciously or unconsciously treated them as such. Try to imagine how this might have been received. Only now that you are "out of favor" with JW's have you turned back to them. Maybe they don't like being your relatives of last resort - I know I wouldn't.

  Give it time and maybe eat a little humble pie this year. If all they want is a card maybe you could write them a heartfelt letter. I'm sure it will get better with time.

  -FW
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  52

  Why is Jehovah organization or Jehova's Witness so critizise?

  by toer5777 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why not the catholic church or others religions?

  i dont understand that how a religion that douesn't go to war, don't buy guns, they preach for free they dont get paid,there not rasist, they love there neighbors they treat others well, they dont bother you if you dont want them to pass by your house they wont.

  why so much hate, if they go strictly by what the bible says.

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  FreeWilly

  Toer,
  Let's just get this over with eh? We see this all the time.
  JW stumbles across this site and somewhat naively assumes that all the people are "bitter and filled with hate".
  Ex-JW's show how families are ripped apart, mistruths are spread in WT literature, and blunders in their past show this is nothing but a manmade religion.
  JW believes none of it and assumes a persecution complex.
  Ex-JW's present evidence and demand an answer.

  DECISION TIME

  The JW is now confronted with something they probably never knew and now asked to answer for it. All their conditioning teaches them to repel any attacks on their precious publishing company.

  Now the JW must either automatically defend Brooklyn, or investigate and learn more.

  What will you do Toer?

  Well to save you the suspense, I can likely tell you what you will do. You will say "God always had an organization" to defend the Watchtower Society's authority, yet when obviously human mistakes are presented you will then revert to a "imperfect humans make mistakes" defense. You will use this defense to defend teachings that have resulted in numerous deaths and abuses around the world. You may even feel good about Watchtower's belief that 6 Billion human beings deserve death for not believing this doomsday religion. Eventually you will see that there is no logical defense for these and eventually leave dejected.
  Blah Blah Blah. Surpise me please.
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  12

  Divided family and confused

  by noelle2375 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all!

  i am new here and wanted to ask some advice.

  i have been dating a disfellowshipped man for almost 3 years.

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  FreeWilly

  Hi Noelle,

  Welcome to JWD!

  "Can a believing, soon-to-be reinstated JW and a non JW really live peacefully forever?"

  I'm sure it happens, but I can say that most (if not all) find it to be a continual strain on the relationship. If he continues on his course you can expect more and more pressure for you to conform and join. If he redevelopes his social connections at the kingdom hall you can expect a new social scene where you are an outsider because you are not one of them. If he is trying to get back in good standing he will have to marry you or leave you. They will not reinstate him until he does one or the other.

  Even before being reinstated he will be expected to attend all of the weekly meetings which is 2 hours on sunday, 2 hours for a "ministry school" on a weekenight, one for a "book study" hour on another weeknight, and a few hours door-knocking on the weekend. As the "Head of the Household" he will demand his children be raised JW's, taking them with him as he goes.

  I don't want to advise you on something as serious as this, but you should realize that if he indeed does want to get reinstated, then you will be left out of the JW part of his life - a life that is designed to occupy most of his free time. Unfortunately you will be left with the "scraps", unless of course you join.

  I recommend you buy him the book "Crisis of Conscience" and demand he read it through. You could be heading down a dark road...

  Good luck,

  FW
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  40

  Jwitness roofing service blog overun with JW! Go make a comment! Plantseed

  by PaNiCAtTaCk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here is the link.

  copy and paste and post.

  here is an actual post from a jw.

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  FreeWilly

  Hey I got an email too! I gave the guy a few questions and he's working on a reply. It ought to be fun. I'll post it when it comes

  -FW