Posts by FreeWilly

16

Ideas to help w/ Still-believing mates

by FreeWilly in

i've been reading alot of posts about spouses trying to get through to their mates still in dubville - with mixed results.

it seems to go like this: after some internal questioning the exiting mate shares what they learn with the stilladub mate.

at first the stilladub mate may be receptive and even share some of their own doubts and unresolved questions.

FreeWilly

I've been reading alot of posts about spouses trying to get through to their mates still in Dubville - with mixed results. It seems to go like this: After some internal questioning the Exiting mate shares what they learn with the StillaDub mate. At first the StillaDub mate may be receptive and even share some of their own doubts and unresolved questions. But once the Stilladub mate realizes the situation may cause seious changes they become closed, exasperated and wished the whole thing went away. Then it becomes hard to talk to them about anything JW related.

I've read a couple of books that I think would really help couples struggling in this way. They don't even touch upon JW's. They both have to do with a fundementalist sect of Mormonism (FLDS). It seems to me to be a non threatening way to show how an insular controlling religion manipulates and controls it's followers stealing their lives away. They use the same playbook as the Society - information control, disfellowshipping, constant fear of Armageddon, warped reasoning etc. I think it would help keep the StillaDub mate engaged without them becoming overly defensive.

Anyway the books are "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop and "Under the Banner of Heaven" by John Krakauer. Me and my fiance have read these together and often found ourselves how anyone can be so obviosly duped.

Any other ideas?

33

Brant Jones Letters to and From the Watchtower- 2005-06

by uninformed in

thanks to scully, i have figured out where to put these letters so all that would like to access them and read them can do so.--just click on the link below.. don't expect a lot from the letters, as i am a brick mason and not the brightest bulb on the (new) christmas tree.. in my correspondence with the wt, i exerted all my effort to keep the discussion on just the un, even though i did have misgivings on other matters.

i thought if i was able to keep the discussion on just the un that it would prove to be more difficult for them to disfellowship me, as it was their conduct that i was opposing, conduct that violated their own teachings.. it worked to some extent, as they had to trump up charges on us that we started our own religion because we had the memorial celebration in 2006 with our family rather than at the kingdumb hall.

it was a real pleasure to be disfellowshipped for their sin.

FreeWilly

Great Job Brant!

I am impressed that you felt so compelled by the issue that you took it all the way to Bethel. Many would cower in the same circumstances, but I guess that's why some still remain inside that broken system.

Coorespondance from the DPI unequivocally states that if the WTS or anyone else merely wanted access to the UN Libraries then they could simply get a Library card! Registering as a UN NGO is clearly for a different reason that the WTS does not want to come clean on. Even more damning is the hasty decision to dissassociate themselves once the truth of their affiliation with the UN NGO program became known through the investigative article that appeared in The Guardian newspaper just 24hrs earlier! And finally their words in the 1991 WT show them as hypocritical beyond doubt by condemning Christendom for the affiliation with the UN via the NGO program.

Looking back on the years that have passed since I can see this issue with fresh eyes. The Society's actions are reminiscent of other insular organizations such as Scientology and Fundementalist Latter Day Saints. They share the same playbook. In the end it really doesn't matter because people who stay "in" are doing so NOT because of accuracy, fact and logic. I surmise that many continue despite the perponderance of evidence due to a fostered dependance reinforced by the threat of bannishment and loss of their social and family ties.

11

Set aside your political brainwashing, and read this.......................

by Warlock in

jw
friends

the great moderation of debt.

the coaches on the field still refuse to cut their losses and admit defeat: save your resources for the next game.mr practicaljan 23, 2008 9:00 am .

the problem now seems to be that the coaches on the field still refuse to cut their losses and admit defeat: save your resources for the next game.

FreeWilly

A great article. Our US economy has been fueled by an expansion of credit. People purchased goods - not with money they saved - but with money created via credit. Credit that cannot be paid back is defaulted. This causes credit based money supply to evaporate. In other words Deflation.

It will be interesting times. If recent prosperity was created largely by credit what will the evaporation of this credit create? Historically the answer is not good.

I'm not convinced we will experience macro-economic deflation though. Deflation calls for decreasing prices (not always good) and a strengthening US dollar due to a decreased money supply (from credit-money contraction). While we will no doubt experience this I believe consumer prices will remain elevated due to global demand, for resources and commodities. Additionally the US national debt it monstrous and increasingly affecting our govornment's ability to pay. Any contraction of money supply will, I beleive, be offset by an increase in money supply to pay debt obligations.

I believe we will experience a great transfer of wealth as indebted US citizens watch their (artificial) wealth evaporate while those who carry no debt are left with what remains. This demographic consists of "savers" which are very few, and foreign holders of US dollars - exceedingly large.

69

My Husband found out about this site...

by cognac in

jw
friends

i told him that i have no intention of leaving.... he told me that i was like "a dog returning to its vomit"... .

FreeWilly

He's probably going to report you to the Elders... be prepared

29

Universal Issue of Sovereignty Does NOT Exist....Proof......

by oompa in

we are taught that the $hit mankind has endured for thousands of years is because satan said something that could be construed to be bad about god, and so god said...."let's let mankind see if they are better off following satan and leading themselves, or following me.

" now thousands of years later, this universal issue is still not settled...after all...the angles and demons are waiting with baited breath for the end result.. do you think that just because you were taught since youth that this "universal sovereignty issue" is real, it is?

i have some real good biblical reasons this is not even an issue.............................................oompa.

FreeWilly

I don't know if you're looking for someone to take the flip side of this issue. Good luck here!

Anyway, If you read the WT Brochures or the sections of the Knowledge book etc, where it introduces this "issue" you will notice scant few scriptures cited in support. The few ones they do cite speak nothing of a universal issue. The truth is this "issue" is nowhere taught in the Bible. Paul uses the whole book of Hebrews to explain parallels betwen the Mosaic law and Christianity, but not even one paragraph in the Bible is devoted to what the Society bills as the most important decision facing mankind.

Abraham never spoke of this issue.

Moses never spoke of this issue.

The prophets never spoke of this issue.

Jesus never spoke of this issue.

The Apostles never spoke of this issue.

Is it reasonable to believe that every important Biblical figure forget to mention it, yet this same (hidden) issue will determine if you are part of the 0.01% who live or the 99.9% who die! How stupid.

283

News from Mother ship

by jefferywhat in

1. bethel in ny suspect high level apostate, cant identify it but know its there.

2. major organizational changes about to start rolling out, one is changes to the "service committee" and titles, po to be done away with, thats all i know for now.

was told that if you are the sort of person that cant handle changes, you wont stay in the org for long.

FreeWilly

There seems to be a tendancy here on JWD for some to attempt to sniff out "trolls". It's kinda annoying because the thread then becomes about whether or not so and so is credible or a troll. I'm just waiting for that label to be floated.

If you are skeptical - so noted. If you want to wait on evidence to emerge great. But beyond that who the hell cares? I mean really. I think it's obvious to anyone here that the validity of this story should be taken with a grain of salt until something tangible materializes.

17

Faithful and Discrete Slave

by Johnna in

if it is true that the slave class is here to lead the organization, and their numbers on earth are still in the thousands, why is it only just a handful at the headqtrs that send out the spiritual food?

i have known many "annointed" ones over my course of involvement and none of them were ever called on for their input, guidance, counsel, etc... much less to have a turn to lead the work in ny.

aren't they all supposed to be doing the guidance work on the earth?

FreeWilly

Johnna,

The truth is that this technicality doesn't really matter. People who stay in the Truth do so not because it is logical. They do so because they have become dependant on the organization. Their entire social universe depends on their obedience the the Society. Independance costs them all their freinds, JW family, their reputation and self worth.

What you've figured out will cause the average JW to weigh the implications. It's no wonder that many will placate themselves by "waiting on Jehovah" or telling themselves "Lord, where else will we go?"

Once you conclude that the God does not communicate with the FDS so many other things fall apart. Suddenly it becomes obvious why all predictions to date have failed, doctines have changed, and medical blunders occurred. It's a slippery slope that the well indoctrinated mind learns to run from.

66

Why the Watchtowers "War" argument is totally bogus

by drew sagan in

from my own personal experience the watchtowers position on war always appeared to be one of the most difficult issues to navigate.

a number of times when i was first leaving the wts i spoke with jws who all used this argument to show me how "wrong" i was about the "truth".

while i knew the watchtowers arguments where wrong, i had a very difficult time figuring out exactly why it was wrong.

FreeWilly

Prop

66

Why the Watchtowers "War" argument is totally bogus

by drew sagan in

from my own personal experience the watchtowers position on war always appeared to be one of the most difficult issues to navigate.

a number of times when i was first leaving the wts i spoke with jws who all used this argument to show me how "wrong" i was about the "truth".

while i knew the watchtowers arguments where wrong, i had a very difficult time figuring out exactly why it was wrong.

FreeWilly

Proplog,

With all due respect you appear new to the concept of debate and logical fallacy. It's as if you read a list of logical fallacies and began to look into Drews post for any that might apply - however loosely. This becomes obvious when you cite supposed examples:

DREW "I believe this to be a totally bogus argument based upon faulty comparisons."

That is a statement of your belief not a statement of fact.

Of course it is a statement of belief. Drew never represented it otherwise. In this particular case Drew must by necessity use a hypothetical since, as he claims, he believes the Societies argument is "based upon faulty comparisons". You attempt to deconstruct the argument by claiming the comparison is counterfactual.

You may be right but there is no way of determining this based on a hypothetical situation.

EXACTLY! That is precisely why the comparison fails. It is only hypothetical in the case of JW's which is the basis of Drews claim. Remember? - one of Faulty comparisons. You inadvertently support Drews claim by citing the incongruity!

You then loose it altogether here:

It's aim is to distract attention from the facts of Jesus' sermon on the mount and that there is no way to justify war based on the love Jesus advocated.

Now prop.... not only do you fail argumentation 101, but you let loose a whopper with that one!

216

I'm a Pioneer Married To a Wonderful Brother Reaching Out to be an MS...

by cognac in

and petrified... i just recently became a pioneer and always had nagging questions in the back of my mind.

so, i decided that when i have get a study i would research all the questions as i go along so as to prove everything in the truth... i got 4 studies in about 2 months.

all was fine, until i reached i think chapter 6 in the bible teach book about the resurrection.

FreeWilly

Aleman : "But if YOU have bitter jealousy and contentiousness in YOUR hearts, do not be bragging and lying against the truth.This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is [the] earthly, animal, demonic.For where jealousy and contentiousness are, there disorder and every vile thing are." - James 3:14-16.

A little presumpteuos don't you think?

Aleman, step back and think about this a little. You are part of a religious relatively recent religious movement that branched off from the Adventists in the late 1800's. Borrowing (in some cases verbatum) Adventist logic your movement has continued use flawed reasoning and convoluted Bible formulas to make wild predictions of Doomsday, prophetic time periods and voluminous other crack pot speculations. All the while your group claims to hold "the Truth" and receive direction from Jehovah who will wreak death and destruction upon all who failed to heed these wavering cries.

I realize the term "the Truth" is an integral part of JW lingo, but what on Earth causes you to think that anything issued by the 'Society' bears a resemblance to truth? Whenever the Society has attempted to apply their supposed divine insights to the real world they have been an embarrassing failure every single time.

What happened the the "King of the North". First he was the Papacy, then the Nazi's, then the Soviet Union and now who the heck knows?

What about the truly bizzare teachings such as Aluminum cookware is poisonous, Vaccinations are demonic, or that God lived in the constellation Pleiades?

And recently, what happened to the Generation of 1914? First it was people cognizant of the events of 1914, then it bacame those who were merely born before 1914, then it became some undefined time period and now it only applies to the annointed! Aleman, despite what the Watchtower preached for decades, the Generation of 1914 DID PASS AWAY! That's why they had to change the teaching.

Do you really think that your God is going to kill nearly all of humanity for failing to listen to an obscure religious movement known the world over for false Doomsday prediction, sheltering peadophiles, killing kids over blood and wrecking families?

Don't flatter yourself. No one here is "jealous" or "contentious" of you - are you kidding me?

How many times will you fall for a new and improved sucker story?