Posts by Buster

39

Will there ever be another Ray Franz?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

will any other governing body member - present or future - ever have as much impact as he did.

will anyone else have enough strength of character, personal integrity and balls to step down and speak out?.

nic'

Buster

Of course its impossible to predict. But I think Ray Franz was a unique event in the history of the WTS. No one else on the GB, then and presumably now, had an uncle that was the senior doctrine boy. Freddie had a lot of pull and it would be naive to think that that didn't play a role in Ray's ascencion to the GB. I think that allowed Ray a bit of courage in standing his own ground.

It isn't so much that no one could ever make a stand. It is more that the GB are selected for their insane commitment to the org.

Anything can happen though.

7

144,000

by TemeculaMole in

jw
friends

just curious,.

what are your views (as an ex-jw) of the 144,000 doctrine?

is it something you still beleive or have you changed your beleifs?.

Buster

144k+1: "superfriends" - hilarious.

Live like peasants? Are you kidding? We get to bring clothes to people coming out of the grave, we get to have lions for pets, we get to eat fruit all the time, we get to talk to the people that built the great pyramid (we'll ask them how they let Satan design it for them), I can only presume we get to go swimming a lot.

What kind of ruling do you get to do? There are no bad people. Satan is locked up. You just get to float around and sing praise for millenia on end. You can have it.

82

What is the WTS's motive?

by careful fader in

can anyone help me understand the motive of the wts?

i don't think it's money .

the gb lives at bethel in a pretty low standard of living.

Buster

I think the motives inside the org vary with the levels. For instance, I think there are two major motvations at the congregation level: those that want to be told what is right and wrong, and those that want to do the telling. By the time you get to the top, I think motivations change. Ever go to a DC and hear a GB member speak? Remember feeling, or perhaps even stating, that you were getting information from as close to God as possible? These guys are treated as prophets and 'speakers with God.' That's pretty heady stuff.

Now picture the alternative: a GB member finally decides that it is time for an honest look at the teachings. He can either shut the hell up, or he can look forward to scrounging his list of old friends for a room to stay in until he dies, all the while fending off DF'ing attacks from those left behind.

One way or another, he'll rationalize a way to toe the corporate line.

7

144,000

by TemeculaMole in

jw
friends

just curious,.

what are your views (as an ex-jw) of the 144,000 doctrine?

is it something you still beleive or have you changed your beleifs?.

Buster

This comes up pretty regularly here. Personally, the 144k is my favorite dubbie doctrine. It is stupid and has been ammended over time to account for unfulfilled prephecy.

16

JW history (big green book)

by lovinglife in

i have been coming here for many months now; absorbing all the wonderful info given and reading ray franz's books, but i have never posted before.

can anyone tell me the specific name and about a book that came out a few years ago, i guess at a convention about the jw's history?

i think it starts out as "jehovah's witnesses and something, something" its a big green book...thats all the info i have on it.

Buster

Welcome aboard!

You already know you'll get more accurate info from this and other web sites. That Proclaimers book is quite sanitized. Some of the most fun reading I've done on the topic is in books available from Randy Waters.

When you're up to it, post your story.

23

I need 10 quick anti 1914 arguments to print out.

by ColdRedRain in

as i mentioned in another forum, i'm going to an aunt's wedding and i know my family's going to try to debate with me.

i thought a good way to win some debates was to debunk the 1914 teaching.

i have very little time these days because i work frequently and i can't get to the library to use the internet.

Buster

From the "Probably chiming too late" department:

If I were sitting in front of a dubbie apologist, I would make them prove it to me. Should be easy enough for them, it being the truth and all. But you need to stand firm in your faith in yourself. You see, if its the truth, if they are earnestly trying to explain, and if you are earnestly trying to undertand, then it will happen.

You'll need to challenge their assumptions thru the whole thing. Look for the logical (illogical) leaps they make. Make them justify every step.

What makes them think that the Gentile times is a fixed period, with a set beginning and end?
What makes them think that the Times starts at the same time as the fall of Jerusalem?
how do they justify the 360-days-in-a-year, then year-for-a-day?

Don't let them pull out a scripture snippet here and say it ties to another snippet over there. Make them justify connecting them. Make them review the scriptural context of every snippet they cite. Have an online Bible commentary available and use it every time they try to baffle you with the BS stream of snippets.

Keep in mind that they are postulating that Jesus has been ruling for almost 100 years - and you haven't seen hyde nor hair of him.

Stay skeptical and you'll see that they have no valid answers here.

17

Have fun with todays text!!

by unique1 in

my mom in yet another attempt to strengthen me, has decided to send me the daily text.

today's was especially repulsive.

just thought i would share.

Buster

First, they are using a scripture snippet out of context and trying to make us believe it directs us in a way it does not. They imply that we are to accept and obey all teachings of the establishment. But that is not what the TImothy scripture is about.

First, I want to echo Uzzah: That scripture has a clause about 'presiding in a fine way.' That clause brings with it the authority/responsibility to decide who is leading in a fine way. We get to decide! We are are NOT to blindly follow! That scripture implies the exact opposite of what they are trying to say.

Second, funny how they leave out the clause about 'especially those laboring in doctrine.' That implies a certain subset(I feel it is a small subset), and not all of the leaders are worthy of that 'double honor'.

That brings me to that 'double honor': The supporting principle later cited is the oxen not being muzzled while working. Funny how they left that part out as well. This scripture is about these dedicated, fine leaders in the doctrine needing and getting some form of material support.

Those scriptures are completely out of context! They are purposely misleading, and in some ways imply the exact opposite of what they intend us to infer.

- Cliff (of the 'wanna throw up' class)

43

Being "Smart" will not prevent one from following the WTS

by onacruse in

this weekend, while katie and i were at the beach, we both spent a little time reading coc (no, it wasn't a study lol ...i can honestly say that i did not favor the disfellowshipping decision made by the [governing] body.

for when the vote came i conformed to the majority decision.

i felt dismayed when the body assigned me to prepare mateiral in support of the decision, yet i accepted the assignment and wrote it as was desired by the body...my belief in the organization as god's only agency on earth caused me to do what i did at that time without particularly great qualms of conscience.. .

Buster

Hi Craig and Katie, hope you guys had a nice weekend.

"It's Not What you Think, It's How You Feel...that matters"

Now Craig I think you hit it: the commitment and zeal to follow the WTS is more an emotional drive than it is an intellectual one. Perhaps it doesn't matter how smart one is, we all have emotional needs. I think the emotional needs that drive an otherwise intelligent and introspective person to follow the Society run the full gammit. Some need the surety that comes with the dictatorial dogma, as well as the bliss of not having to make a decision that comes with it. Others need a smaller pond where they can feel like a big fish.

But I remember being taught to look down on all things worldly. It made me distrusful and scornful. That is how the WTS hobbles otherwise emotionally sufficient people. I think we have a lot of those here - those that broke away and can't believe they ever tolerated that crap.

Funny how none of that has anything to do with intelligence.

10

Persecution Proves JWs are the Only True Religion--Right?

by blondie in

so often when the wts reports about persecution of jws they conveniently forget to mention that other religions in the area are receiving the same treatment.

if you are an active lurking jw on this board, i invite you to check the search news engines and see that jws are not being singled out.. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/006/15.26.html.

christianity today, june 2003. .

Buster

Ya know, perecution is evidence that they have the truth and that Satan is zeroing in on them. Oh, and prosperity is evidence that they have the truth and that God is blessing them. And I think that anything in the middle is evidence that they have the truth and Satan is zeroing in on them and that God is blessing their works.

(Being in a cult has that certain 'we don't need to think' thing about it)

14

Love for the needy in the borg

by LeslieV in

jw
friends

since i am responsible for financial services at a very large salvation army in nys, i received a grant that helps the needy in rural areas in nys.

i was looking through our large data base for names of people in certain zip codes.

guess what i found!!!!

Buster

Lets see, "Trust in Jehovah," "Jehovah will provide," are expressions we all used. I remember doing group-activities for some of the elderly in our cong. But I never once remember doing the first thing for any able-bodied witnesses, financially or otherwise. But I was young, and I may not have noticed.

Seems to me that ignoring the poor is a corrollary attitude to the 'God blesses the faithful' attitude. Every time we say or think that god has blessed us for our faith and good deeds, we fortify the sense that those that 'have not' must not be blessed. Its almost like we would have been subverting God's will to help someone, as though we expected them to solve their problems by praying harder.