Posts by Bugbear

35

What was the "logical straw" that broke your camel's back?

by Pacopoolio in

jw
friends

i had a bunch of tiny little nags that always bothered me about the bible/god/etc.

that eventually led to me drifting away, but this was my personal, singular issue that no one could address.

i think i mentioned it before here, but, for summation again:.

Bugbear

For me there were several things during a long period of time. But the straw of the camel´s back was one: The Philosophical logic fallacies that are obvious in two major issues.

1./ According to the Soc. Jehova God is loving, merciful, forgiving and kind. And he should never ever let his human child burn in a hell. But if you don’t become a JW soon, he will destroy you and all the rest of humans in a total disaster, the BIG A….soon…soon

2./ God sacrificed his one borne son Jesus Christ, so that everyone who believes in him should have eternal life. And the son of God comes down to earth, he is loving careful, merciful, and teach us how to live and how to behave against one another. And we kill him, betray him, humiliate him, put him on a cross, spit on him, and when he dies god takes him back again, and then suddenly everything is forgotten.

Most religious people are totally perplex, when you start to question on these matters

Bugbear

72

CO's & DO's age 70+ to be laid off on 9/1/14

by williamhconley in

jw
friends

in a private conversation with a c.o.

friend from north carolina, he told me yesterday that they just got a letter that all traveling overseers (do's & co's) age 70 & up are going to be laid off on 09/01/2014.

they will be asssigned to local congregations and further details are pending.. .

Bugbear

Well looking on it from the outside a “finance controller” couldn’t see all the events from any other point then bankruptcy.

The WTBTS are selling out all real assets, Brooklyn buildings, Kingdom Halls, Assembly halls, branch offices. And now they are dismissing all “the old” ones on the paying lists. They must know that all these acts are giving them terrible credits on moral chart.

All these events are the proof that WTBTS are on the edge of ruin. Wasn’t Russel who said that If this organization have the blessing from God we should never feel the need of asking people for money. He will provide…

Bugbear

13

Milking the convention cash cow for all it's worth - some questions

by Fernando in

if memory serves there have been discussions about:.

pressure to donate to cover convention expenses far beyond actual expenses.

obtaining venue subsidies and or sponsorships but not passing on the savings to the flock.

Bugbear

Yes Ruderedhead:

But yes, they make business decisions the same as any other business,,,,

But wastn´t the followers of Jesus supposed to give for free.? Wasn´t the followers of Jesus given away all their possesions to those who were in need?

Bugbear

13

Milking the convention cash cow for all it's worth - some questions

by Fernando in

if memory serves there have been discussions about:.

pressure to donate to cover convention expenses far beyond actual expenses.

obtaining venue subsidies and or sponsorships but not passing on the savings to the flock.

Bugbear

Thoght mayby this exp. from sweden could be of interest

What they did i Sweden anyway, since they sold ”our” assembly hall, was that they booked a complex Hotel center up north in the high mountain region (skiing resort) several weekends, during of season, and told the Hotel owner that they could fill the hotel complex with 800-1000 guest, each one individually paying for their rooms or foods in the restaurant. This for two nights. Guess if the Hotel owner gladly let them have for free all the “conference” facilities. And of course the speakers or those in charge of this conference had their rooms and food free.

This made several hundred cars and busses travel more than 300 km, turn and return. Forcing poor families to spend about $ 100 /night + rest. Food. Of course during the convention the speakers always demand the audience to give their contribute for all the arrangement that the society had provided for??!!

This kept on for a couple of years. But the brothers soon discovered that attendance figures dropped dramatically. And I guess The Hotel owners soon find another way of getting their guests.

Bugbear

19

EVIDENCE CONVENTION-ATTENDANCES ARE IN DECLINE?

by steve2 in

jw
friends

there are many threads on this forum about the stultifying tedium of the conventions.

memories of one convention merge with every other convention over the years with few sticking out as high points.. in recent years, there have been lots of anecdotal reports (primarily from western countries) of an astonishingly low number of baptismal candidates at these conventions, and in particular district conventions - especially compared to the higher numbers who presented for baptisms in earlier decades.

is this decline also reflected in general attendances at the conventions?.

Bugbear

What they did i Sweden anyway, since they sold ”our” assembly hall, was that they booked a complex Hotel center up north in the high mountain region (skiing resort) several weekends, during of season, and told the Hotel owner that they could fill the hotel complex with 800-1000 guest, each one individually paying for their rooms or foods in the restaurant. This for two nights. Guess if the Hotel owner gladly let them have for free all the “conference” facilities. And of course the speakers or those in charge of this conference had their rooms and food free.

This made several hundred cars and busses travel more than 300 km, turn and return. Forcing poor families to spend about $ 100 /night + rest. Food. Of course during the convention the speakers always demand the audience to give their contribute for all the arrangement that the society had provided for??!!

This kept on for a couple of years. But the brothers soon discovered that attendance figures dropped dramatically. And I guess The Hotel owners soon find another way of getting their guests.

Bugbear

66

hello

by fakefading in

hello my fellow "apostates".

just wanted to say hi.

i'm still in the borg but mentally out.

Bugbear

Welcome!

I am probably much older than you, but left the borg 15 years ago. I succeded in holding all my 6 children outside the KH, but my wife is still in. She has been a hardcore witness for 40 years. All of us (my children and I) are a bit worried over her menthal health, but feel that it is better for her wake up slowly, and let her believe in all her friends. I think that she needs a "firm believe" in something, so we dont speak to her about the TTATT. Even if I understand that she "knows" what is wrong with the soc. she feels more comfortable to cling to the Watchtower. (cognitive dissonance). I think what you must do is, TAKE CARE of YOUR future. Even if you still want to live with her, you must get yourselves a job, an income and a pension. This also to secure her future. The org. will not.

Bugbear

20

Are you as critical of higher education and science as you are of religion?

by EndofMysteries in

i am beginning to see a complete unbalanced shift from one end of the spectrum to the other.

i'll use jw's as the example but this would apply to any religion and any person.

if you just accepted the jw teachings unquestionably from the governing body because you felt they were the highest authority on the matter and 'trusted' them before waking up to ttatt you may shift to the other end of the spectrum.

Bugbear

Julia O

You say:" Scientists say x? Show me the evidence."

Im sorry to say that none will come to you knocking on the door saying that I have taken some evidence with me and I want to show them for you.

The fact is that these evidences are located, in laboratories, Museums, amongs text schoolars, who have spent many years studuing coneiform, clay plates, hieroglyfs from ancient egypt. Museums all over the world its full of them, in Bagdad, in Cairo, London, Paris. The next thing you must do is start to learn some of these technics, languages. This is a very time consuming effort. Or you can just trust that 99% of the professors, textcrackers, scientific world are very honest, and eager to expose enyone of them if they cheat.

Bugbear

20

Are you as critical of higher education and science as you are of religion?

by EndofMysteries in

i am beginning to see a complete unbalanced shift from one end of the spectrum to the other.

i'll use jw's as the example but this would apply to any religion and any person.

if you just accepted the jw teachings unquestionably from the governing body because you felt they were the highest authority on the matter and 'trusted' them before waking up to ttatt you may shift to the other end of the spectrum.

Bugbear

Yes false analogy,

We know so much more about this world today then the old greek, and we must believe that we really can see with our own eyes: here is some exampel:

When it comes to evolution proof, it is easy to repudiate scientific proof of age measurement, such as C14 and other methods.

The WBTS just say they cant proof that these methods are proof and true. This even if you drill a hole in the arctic ice, with rings for every year.

But if you got in your hand, something written, calendars, kings reign, harvest counting. a.s.f and can connect these written layertables with other poeples written thing, you got proof that that they must have coexisted. WRITTEN proof much older then the bible itself. One of these claylayers(and there are several thousends of them) are named the Gilgamesh epos, about "The flood". The problem for the Bible schoolars are that these claylayers can be dated til about 5000 years b.ch. They often speek about Kings and reins much much older then "the flood", and therefore these claylayers from the sumerer (Irak), proof that Bible chronology is unfiasable. This also goes with Champolions cracking of the Egypt hieroglyfs. According to the WBTS chronology the flood must have happend about 4300 years ago. Imagine that only 100 hundred years aftert the Flood the Egyptians where able to build enourmus pyramids, and had kingdoms wide spread wich must have had much more then 1 million inhabitants. (Remember only eight humans survived the flood)....Not to mention the problems with Kangarous/Wallabies and other speciment in remote areas. For those who look deeply in this, it is very obvious that fundamentalists are not honest.

Bugbear

7

JW encounters.... How about you?

by dazed but not confused in

looking back, were there witnesses that you secretly hoped would never learn ttatt, never wake up?.

i had two polar opposite encounters this weekend.

the first was a sweet sister that saw me and my wife at the grocery store and gave us both big hugs and asked how we were doing.

Bugbear

Me to!

My wife who has been a JW since she were 20 (now 65), had a very sad and crushed childhood with no father in sight. I have tried to fill that part of her wishes, but now she finds that I am an apostaph. I dont wont to crush her illusions about the WBTS, becouse I think, this is the last illusions she need to survive. It is better for her to continue being in, with all her friends, and slightly seeing "new light" coming from GB, without me writing it on her nose.

Bugbear

9

How can we benefit from the death of Jesus?

by Bugbear in

according to many christian churches including wbtc, the very cores of christian believes, is about how god (jehova) sacrifice his one borne son, so that every obedient mankind who believe in him could be released from sin and thereby have the hope of eternal life.

the bible is full of scriptures given this indication.

(gal.

Bugbear

De Wandelar!

Is something really a sacrifice if you take your life back within 3 days?

I have had that thought myself for a couple of years now. Does God play charades with us?

What a malignant God we have created in our minds. A God that demanded the Israelits to sacrifice every week, only the best they had, out of sheeps, bulls, birds a.s.on. A god that made Abraham must proof that he was ready to kill his own son. A God that demands stoning of people that are suspected of adultery.?!

I hope that (and is quite sure) he is only a brain product. Unfortunately if you look at other ancient people, they have similar gods, demanding ascetism, and other sacrifices.

Bugbear