LovesDubs, she was baptised just before I met her. The WT is the only "religious teaching" she's ever had. I knew basically nothing about JW/WTS then but have researched it, meantime our relationship has continued. None of her family are JW's. She does rely heavily on the social environment, but I know she could let it go. She's wanted to come to me where I currently am, so I know she would do it even if she doesn't fully understand. She would just shift her reliance onto me.
Posts by Gig
-
10It's working...she's listening...what NOW?
by Gig injust the other day my jw friend, whom i love very much, called me out of the blue after having broken contact yet again a couple of months ago.
this exhausting cycle i'm determined to break.
she has never been able to reconcile the advice she gets from her elders and the sense i make.
-
-
-
10
It's working...she's listening...what NOW?
by Gig injust the other day my jw friend, whom i love very much, called me out of the blue after having broken contact yet again a couple of months ago.
this exhausting cycle i'm determined to break.
she has never been able to reconcile the advice she gets from her elders and the sense i make.
-
-
Gig
Just the other day my JW friend, whom I love very much, called me out of the blue after having broken contact yet again a couple of months ago. This exhausting cycle I'm determined to break. She has never been able to reconcile the advice she gets from her elders and the sense I make. Her inclination is naturally to go along with the elders when she can't understand, much safer to her, all of them against me...how could I possibly be right even when she thinks so too.
Anyway, she has agreed with me that this time has to be different...neither of us wants to "go through the same thing again", and it's not a selfish thing. She went so far as to say she gets the feeling that I might know even before the WTS what is wrong and need changing. (WOW) She respects my dedication and ability to study, but then I talk about being led by the Spirit, my comforter and counselor, and she obviously doesn't understand (how could electricity feel good?) She only knows to ask the elders and they tell her that basically I suck and can't be trusted...don't hear, see, or speak to me. These elders know me and I've never attacked any of them, it's always been questions with no insistence that I'm sure I'm right. But because I don't immediately accept it as they do and because I ask a different question than the WT mag does or answer however thoughfully outside the box, I'm no good...for Jah or her. Plainly, I'm not a witness and therefore unacceptable. How much easier can they make it? It's Jah's
datesanswer, not ours.So our conversations were going really well, lots of care, concern, and love, complete with emotions. And by design not much witnesses verses the world talk. Then last night she goes to her meeting and this morning I can tell the difference. I didn't even have to ask if she talked to any of them about me...knowing she did and knowing what they must've said. I hate to see her this way, doubting herself and so worried about going against Jah's arrangement. I've explained that we're all motivated by either love or fear, and that it has to be love where we're concerned. So I am trying to figure out a decidedly different response, a new and entirely appropriate behavior. The strategy is to maintain how much I love her and enforce the fact that I'm not doing anything wrong...(I don't like deceit and neither should she, why am I the bad guy for just mentioning it?...how else are we to learn to avoid the same mistakes again?) I have offered to go through it step by step, allowing her the opportunity to ask every question and set the pace...and my answers will be based on WT quotes or scripture...and she has agreed. I told her it's the only way to eliminate the conflict in her mind. I don't really have a problem if we disagree, but it is unacceptable that we don't understand one another. Until we are certain that we understand, then we aren't able to disagree. She understands and agrees. I added that I'm almost positive that when it gets right down to it, we won't disagree, and that's pretty encouraging to her. I told her I'd go to the meetings or read the WT articles so we can maintain common ground. I've often been considered a fault finder but I explained that it's just the way I tackle problems...I dive right into what I don't understand and deal with the problems so I can more quickly and thoroughly enjoy/appreciate the things I agree with.
She loves me and I love her, she knows as well as I do the cycle we've been caught in but that eventually we HAVE to deal with the misunderstandings. I'm trying to make sure I'm not mis-using her feelings for me, mainly because I'd want her to do the same. I really need your ideas...SHE WANTS TO LEARN and admits that she gets unreasonable in response to some of my questions or statements. It wasn't just words I put in her mouth that she shouldn't make big decisions based on emotion. She knows she is naturally an emotional person...she recognises the value and benefit of thinking before feeling rather than feelings dictating your thinking.
IT'S WORKING! SHE'S LISTENING! Please help me set my boundaries, even if just these temporary ones to get past what she was told (again) last night by her friends and elders. I have to somehow reward her for going against what she feels (and is being told) is the right thing to do...she's doing it but I know she is feeling irresponsible about it. I already suggested with the scripture to do just as I did when I met her two years ago...Test everything and hold onto what is good.
A little more perspective...she can now say matter of factly that she wants to marry me, and she is openly impatient for me to come back and see her. (I'm currently elsewhere on business) She has said before and even recently that she is so tempted to just give in and let me lead her. I know that doesn't mean we won't have to deal with her WT induced confusion, but certainly her exposure could be limited or at least filtered. I've taken my responsibility and admitted that to enforce one scripture I've violated others, even loosing patience and raising my voice.
I didn't mean for this to be so long, but we all know the value of more information. HELP!
-
2
Thank you Saddam
by Gig ini've never heard even the first good thing about the leader of iraq but i've got to thank him.
his highly publicised idiocy helped me to talk to my jw friend.
i got the idea after i watched him try to turn his whole mess into a religious matter, a holy war, then when he accused the un of spying i figured it was worth a shot.
-
-
Gig
I've never heard even the first good thing about the leader of Iraq but I've got to thank him. His highly publicised idiocy helped me to talk to my JW friend. I got the idea after I watched him try to turn his whole mess into a religious matter, a holy war, then when he accused the UN of spying I figured it was worth a shot. I complained how he manipulated the people of Iraq with propaganda and deceit...I never mentioned the WTS but the parallels were no doubt recognized.
We have had conversations previous where I was able to describe methods of defense when guilt exists, burden of proof etc, so my friend made the connection...though I didn't pursue it further. I've learned to be satisfied with small steps.
YEA TEAM!
-
8
The single question of simplicity
by Gig inhaving made the somewhat selfish decision to minimize my wts research, it has been necessary for me to attempt several generalizations and summaries for the sake of personal closure.
this investigative process consumed approximately two of my years and i'm approaching my oh-so-sought-after final statement, for my own finality and for anyone who may also have interest.
because i consider many of you my friends i felt it appropriate to ask your opinion and comment.
-
-
Gig
On second thought, out of respect for your sincere replies, take it either way.
-
8
The single question of simplicity
by Gig inhaving made the somewhat selfish decision to minimize my wts research, it has been necessary for me to attempt several generalizations and summaries for the sake of personal closure.
this investigative process consumed approximately two of my years and i'm approaching my oh-so-sought-after final statement, for my own finality and for anyone who may also have interest.
because i consider many of you my friends i felt it appropriate to ask your opinion and comment.
-
-
Gig
HEY! The sincerity was the joke! Have some fun...please do make a mockery!
-
4
The bigger the better
by Gig init seems there's alot of speculation about what may be introduced at the upcoming international conventions.
given that the wts depends on speculation, i would expect jw's are even more excited than normal...if i can use that word.
anyway, my thought is...let fly!
-
-
Gig
It seems there's alot of speculation about what may be introduced at the upcoming international conventions. Given that the WTS depends on speculation, I would expect JW's are even more excited than normal...if I can use that word. Anyway, my thought is...let fly! The bigger the better! I hope they announce something that again throws a torture stake in their unequalled unity and accurate knowledge. Another blatant doctrinal reversal or some lightening bolt revelation that calls as much attention to the untruth as it does the truth. I hope it's classic GB expertise to the point that I'm not even inclined to argue about it, I can just smile the smile that comes with a sudden drop in membership followed by further reductions this time next year with another elder purification raid.
Because it would be so satisfying to see them do it to themselves, it reminds me of an old statement...
As much as injustice stings, it is true justice that really hurts.
-
8
The single question of simplicity
by Gig inhaving made the somewhat selfish decision to minimize my wts research, it has been necessary for me to attempt several generalizations and summaries for the sake of personal closure.
this investigative process consumed approximately two of my years and i'm approaching my oh-so-sought-after final statement, for my own finality and for anyone who may also have interest.
because i consider many of you my friends i felt it appropriate to ask your opinion and comment.
-
-
Gig
Having made the somewhat selfish decision to minimize my WTS research, it has been necessary for me to attempt several generalizations and summaries for the sake of personal closure. This investigative process consumed approximately two of my years and I'm approaching my Oh-so-sought-after final statement, for my own finality and for anyone who may also have interest.
Because I consider many of you my friends I felt it appropriate to ask your opinion and comment. As much as I've endeavored to find a single, all inclusive descriptive word for the WTS, I am as of yet unable to satisfactorily reduce it less than two. I submit to you the consumation of my effort, to this date, for your consideration...The WTS in two words: Holy $hit. At first it might seem inaccurate given that the term is an oxymoron, but wouldn't you first of all be willing to agree that 'moron' has its rightful place in this calculation? Secondly, not only is the word 'holy' a wonderful ironic accompanyment...mainly because it cannot be properly (no partial-quoting) interpreted independent of the remainder of my summation, that being self-explanitory...but also it is correctly incorporated everybit as carelessly as the WTS's frequent assigned usage, therefore being further, if not entirely, representative of the subject attemted to be described.
In the interest of fair play I'll respectfully ask that none of you make a mockery of my very genuine effort as it has come at a great price. But if you find yourselves disagreeable with my findings, perhaps you'll offer your insight and possibly even your own renderings at their most elementary point, explanitory elaboration is welcomed. I believe we could all enjoy, in fact appreciate each others perception and answer to the question........ The WTS in a single word?
-
6
No charity programs for witnesses
by freedom96 ini remember witnesses in no way partaking in charitible organizations, helping out etc.
not only would they not help with other ones, but in reality there is no form of charity work at all even for fellow witnesses.
you have older ones who have spent their entire life in the wts, only to find themselves practically on the street later.
-
-
Gig
Man cannot serve both God and money.
-
6
No charity programs for witnesses
by freedom96 ini remember witnesses in no way partaking in charitible organizations, helping out etc.
not only would they not help with other ones, but in reality there is no form of charity work at all even for fellow witnesses.
you have older ones who have spent their entire life in the wts, only to find themselves practically on the street later.
-
-
-
14
Damage control
by Gig ini could spend many of your minutes describing how helpful this forum has been for me, suffice it to say that it's the way things should be...offer an idea and everybody else have opportunity to put it on the table too, pro or con.
my opinion is that jw's haven't realized (or have been denied) the benefits of such an appropriate arrangement that also provides the best method for discovery and growth.. my offering today is prompted by what i've found to be a recurring theme here...one that never fails to bother me.
as many witnesses "get out", too often (for me) they along with now rejecting the wts, reject many of the good things the wts tried, however horribly, to represent.
-
-
Gig
I could spend many of your minutes describing how helpful this forum has been for me, suffice it to say that it's the way things should be...offer an idea and everybody else have opportunity to put it on the table too, pro or con. My opinion is that JW's haven't realized (or have been denied) the benefits of such an appropriate arrangement that also provides the best method for discovery and growth.
My offering today is prompted by what I've found to be a recurring theme here...one that never fails to bother me. As many witnesses "get out", too often (for me) they along with now rejecting the WTS, reject many of the good things the WTS tried, however horribly, to represent. Namely christian behavior, religion as a whole, and even God himself. The WTS's all too common tactic is guilty by association, and as much merit as it has I am unaccepting of that platitude in this case. Just because the WT misrepresented so many things, it doesn't make those things then unacceptable.
My belief is this, if anyone studies the Bible and correctly applies what is taught, they are a better person...not only within themselves making life alot easier, but also to any others that they encounter. None of us, NONE know it all. Truly intelligent people will all likely tell you the same thing, the more you learn...the more you learn there is to learn. Whether physically, mentally, or spriritually, it never ends. So given that we're all under the same limitation, knowing that belief has nothing to do with truth and that the worst advice can be made to sound just as plausible as the best advice, go peacefully on. There will ALWAYS be greater and lesser than yourself.
So back to my point, I would ask all of those who have made the good things bad only because they had ANYTHING to do with the WT to reconsider. I hear objection to organized religion, fine, find yourself an independent Bible based place to fellowship and study. No doubt some of the good you've learned from the WT world is to verify what you are told...if they are going beyond what is written and making judgements, then they aren't the ones for you, but keep going. Start by eliminating the sectarian (we're saved and you're not) "religions" and various other self-righteous denominations and find those that have no headquarters and no centralized leadership other than the Bible.
I understand the pseudo-peace that comes from having figured it out, but real satisfaction comes from being unafraid to consistently put your views to the test of scrutiny. If you have the truth of the matter it can become the greatest preventative of reaching deeper understanding, a barrier called belief that allows us to only seek what we have already found.
Humility is happiness, not a disguise. Peace is a reward, not a vague description. Love is a gift and there is no limit. Knowledge is acquired easy enough but it's just information, apply knowledge correctly and it's called wisdom. Please don't disqualify the best things in life just because the WT taught you the wrong way to see them. The Bible describes a mature christian as one who, through consistent use, has developed the ability to determine right from wrong.
Gig, from the "just another friend of yours" class