Posts by derrickb007

34

DF'ed for Organ Transplants?

by NeonMadman in

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i'm in a discussion with a jw who is claiming that the society never actually prohibited organ transplants between 1967 and 1980. she has read the 1967 article, but feels that, since the article does not specifically state that anyone taking a transplant will be disfellowshipped, that it was simply discouraged, but not prohibited.. can anyone help with a reference demonstrating that jw's could be df'ed during that period for accepting a transplant?

derrickb007

I can see your point, Neonmadman. I might be able to find someone who has a 1967 watchtower bound volumn (I think my parents have one). As for your friend:

breezyone2001: what is the scriptural basis for allowing some fractions and not others?
cindeeva: Medical knowledge is advanced and now they have developed blood dirivatives not containing the one part that is making the blood sacred

Isrealite law stated that blood be poured upon the ground. It would not have been lawful to collect or store blood for any purpose, much less a medical one. In order to obtain derivitives from blood, it has to be collected and stored. Paul said to "Keep abstaining from blood", so how can she condone the storage and collecting of blood for medical purposes?

Just a passing thought. Anyway, I'll do more research and get back to you. If you were a JWitness during that time, maybe you know of some people that were disfellowshipped for this offence. They might be able to testify to your claim that they were disfellowshiped for doing this.

Later.

Ps: Note to Farkel, Let's not use name calling please RE: Dimbulb Dub

34

DF'ed for Organ Transplants?

by NeonMadman in

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i'm in a discussion with a jw who is claiming that the society never actually prohibited organ transplants between 1967 and 1980. she has read the 1967 article, but feels that, since the article does not specifically state that anyone taking a transplant will be disfellowshipped, that it was simply discouraged, but not prohibited.. can anyone help with a reference demonstrating that jw's could be df'ed during that period for accepting a transplant?

derrickb007

I scanned through the bound volumes, but couldn't locate the CD-ROM. I'll have to hunt for it or get another one. I could only find one article in the Watchtower (March 15, 1980) that talked specifically about actions for members who had transplants.

Taken from the Watchtower:

Questions From Readers

* Should congregation action be taken if a baptized christian accepts a human organ transplant, such as of a cornea or a kidney?

Regarding the transplantation of human tissue or bone from one human to another, this is a matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Some christians might feel that taking into their bodies any tissue or body part from another human is cannibalistic. They might hold that the transplanted human material is intended to become part of the recipient's body to keep him alive and functioning. They might not see it as fundamentally different from consuming flesh through the mouth. Such feelings may arise from considering that god did not make specific provisions for man to eat the flesh of his fellowman when he made provisions for humans to eat the flesh of animals that had been drained of their life sustaining blood. They may give consideration also to the way people in bible times viewed sustaining themselves by taking in human flesh. For example, see the account at 2 Kings 6:24-30; Deuteronomy 28: 53-57; Lamentations 2:20 and 4:10. At John 6:48-66, Jesus spoke figuratively of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. On hearing this discussion and not perceiving the spiritual significance of his words, some of his Jewish disciples were shocked and turned from following him. These accounts illustrate how some humans felt about eating human flesh.

Other sincere christians today may feel that the bible does not definitely rule out medical transplants of human organs. They may reason that in some cases the human material is not expected to become a permanent part of the recipient's body. Body cells are said to be replaced about every 7 years, and this would be true of any human body parts that would be transplanted. It may be argued, too, that organ transplants are different from cannibalism since the "donor" is not killed to supply food. In some cases persons nearing death actually have willed body parts to be used for transplants. Of course, if a transplant should require taking in another persons blood, undeniably that would be contrary to God's command. -- Acts 15:19,20.

Clearly, personal views and conscientious feelings vary on this issue of transplantation. It is well known that the use of human materials for human consumption varies all the way from minor items, such as hormones and corneas, to major organs, such as kidneys and hearts. While the bible specifically forbids consuming blood, there is no biblical command pointedly forbidding the taking in of other human tissue. For this reason, each individual faced with making a decision on this matter should carefully and prayerfully weigh matters and then decide conscientiously what he or she could or could not do before god. It is a matter for personal decision. (Gal. 6:5) The congregation judicial committee would not take any disciplinary action if someone accepted an organ transplant.

End of Article (Watchtower March 15, 1980 pg.31)

Wow, lots of typing there. When I find my CDROM I will research this more and post my findings. Hope this helped somewhat.

34

DF'ed for Organ Transplants?

by NeonMadman in

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i'm in a discussion with a jw who is claiming that the society never actually prohibited organ transplants between 1967 and 1980. she has read the 1967 article, but feels that, since the article does not specifically state that anyone taking a transplant will be disfellowshipped, that it was simply discouraged, but not prohibited.. can anyone help with a reference demonstrating that jw's could be df'ed during that period for accepting a transplant?

derrickb007

Hi,

I still have the Bound Volumes of Watchtower and Awake magazines and the CD-ROM from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I can do the research for you. To my current knowledge, it never was a disfellowshipping offence but I will research it for you and post it here. Check back later today or tommorrow.

Thanks

17

commendation for discernment

by derrickb007 in

please forgive me if this goes to the wrong forum.

it's the first time i've posted anything on the internet.

i must commend you on the time and research you all have done on this subject.

derrickb007

Someone had asked what am I going to do. Good question. There is only one thing that I can do according to the scriptures, and that is flee from this religion. However, even though I plan to leave, I also need to make this knowledge public to others who are in the congregations so they can draw their own conclusions. If I leave now, no one will fellowship or talk to me. Does anyone have any suggestions?

32

So depressed...(world conditions)

by DanTheMan in

today was one of the hardest days i've had yet since leaving jw.

i was barely able to work, and i have a knot in my stomach.. i look at the world situation and i feel so hopeless and helpless.

knowing there are millions of people outside of the u.s. that, if you were to put a button in front of them that had a label below it that said "kill every man woman and child in the u.s.a." that they wouldn't even hesitate to press it.. i wonder where it will end.

derrickb007

Hi Dantheman;

Just to let you know, I know exactly how you feel. I am still (but not for long) one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is a frightening experience to have to leave, especially when you don't know where it is you have to go. I can be very depressing. My wife and daughter just left me 4 days ago over this, but I am resolved to do the right thing in Jehovah's eyes. What was my crime? I read my bible and prayed to Jehovah to help me understand what I was reading. Is it any supprise that after doing so for 8 months I see the need to seperate myself from that organization? Of course. But I will do what is right.

Remember that when Jesus came to earth the first time, he came not for the religious leaders of his day, but for the tax collectors, prostitutes, etc. When he comes the second time, he will come for those who are "Sighing and groaning over the detestible conditions". Keep your head up, it is people like you that Jesus is interested in, not those who proclaim themselves to be spiritual leaders.

13

just for the jws

by A Paduan in

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i've been looking after a young man, raised as a jw, who is being involuntarily treated after being found sacrificing animals to jehovah to hasten "the end" and kill all of the worldly people.

he had tied up a dog and machetyed it, though it wasn't dead by the time the police were called about the noise.. good work watchtower - we really need ya.. paduan .

derrickb007

Hold on just a sec! Don't be to hasty to believe everything that is told you without doing research to make sure it is true.

I was a Jehovah's Witness for 30 years and am getting ready to leave the organization for scriptural reasons. This religion would tolerate no such thing or promote such a thing. As a matter of fact, such an individual would be seriously reproved, and if baptised, would be disfellowshipped for doing such things.

I do believe your friend needs some help from a medical level. I'm not saying this to be mean, but it sounds pretty serious if he is doing these things.

17

commendation for discernment

by derrickb007 in

please forgive me if this goes to the wrong forum.

it's the first time i've posted anything on the internet.

i must commend you on the time and research you all have done on this subject.

derrickb007

Thanks for your responses. Just to clear the record for Nathan Natas, my comments were directed to all, which includes you.

21

Angry Kids

by LongHauler in

all right, obviously i'm a little new here so bear with me.

just out of curiosity, has anyone here that was raised as a jay-dub felt resentment or anger or animosity toward thier parents?

i wanted nothing to do with the cult even at a fairly early age, but would a person feel that way if they had believed as a teen?

derrickb007

I have to agree with you matty. In regards to liljwgirl, sometimes when the realization that the Society really isn't the channel used by god, as we've been taught to believe, some can get a little bitter, and it shows in their speech and writings. Sometimes it just takes a little time for them to cool off and get on to the right track and frame of mind. Remember, we must serve God as ruler rather than man, and if the Society strays from Jehovah's will well .........

15

Im Scared

by Shytears in

im scared....im trying to think for my self and make my own decisons on the jw religin.but everytime i go to meetings,they scare me with all the armaggendon bull,and makes me feel bad for wanting to date and do"normal things".i mean i want to think for myself,it just seems like they think for you....you have to this and follow that because the wts says so.

and bullshit to loving and kindness in the congregation could have fooed me!!

pfft!

derrickb007

Hi Laura,

It might be comforting for you to know that I am still one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and after 30 years, I've come to the conclusion that I must leave it behind me. It scares me too, but I have taken comfort by reading my bible on a daily basis, and praying to Jehovah to help me understand what I am reading. It has worked, and has helped me how to think for myself. The society would like you to believe that this only works if you are one of the annointed, but I can assure you that this is not the case.

At any case, never leave Jehovah. The society would like us to think that when we leave the organization, we are turning our back on god. This is a lie, for we are turning our backs on the society so that we can serve Jehovah.

Psalms 55:22 sums it up nicely when it says "Throw your burden upon Jehovah himself, and he himself will sustain you". Remain brave, Laura. It is a frightening world that we live in, but Jehovah is on your side if you allow him to be, and there is no one that can fight Jehovah and win.

Edited by - derrickb007 on 9 November 2002 15:26:53

17

commendation for discernment

by derrickb007 in

please forgive me if this goes to the wrong forum.

it's the first time i've posted anything on the internet.

i must commend you on the time and research you all have done on this subject.

derrickb007

Please forgive me if this goes to the wrong forum. It's the first time i've posted anything on the internet. I must commend you on the time and research you all have done on this subject. I do not know if you all are witnesses, or were witnesses, but you have shown remarkable insight into the nature of these discussions.

Currently, I am still one of Jehovah's Witnesses (rank and file position if that means anything). Nothing of this matter has been brought to my attention in the congregations by the Society, but then it does not suprise me. I agree that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society stands in a position where it does not belong. Certain things that have been done, and condoned, in the name of the Society are anti-scriptural, and I believe Jehovah will deal with them for doing the things they have done.

It would seem that they mimic the Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus day in their reasonings, believing that they can get away with certain things because they believe themselves to be " God's chosen people". They claim also to be "God's spirit directed organization on earth", but would god's spirit direct them to establish membership with the UN?

In regards to receiving info from the society about this matter, don't hold your breath. They will not come out and openly admit to this unless they first think up of an excuse to smooth things over. You will not be able to overpower them with any fancy reasonings or words, the same way Jesus couldn't de-throne the Scribes and Pharisees of his day. We are powerless to do anything, that is why Jehovah must deal with them for straying from true worship. Just don't lose your peace over the matter.

On the matter of trying to convert your friends to take their stance against the Society, keep in mind that you will convince some, but you will not be able to convince many. Jesus with all his powerful works and reasonings could not convince the majority back in Jerusalem, and they eventually killed him because of their lack of reasoning and discernment. Do not lose your peace over the matter, simply move on to the next individual. As Jesus said in Mathew 10: 13, "If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you".

Keep up the good work.