Posts by herk

19

Newbie with question

by outbackaussie in

jw
friends

been browsing around...and i have to say it is alittle difficult to tell if this is a pro or anti jw site.

any takers on filling me in on what the attitudes are around here?

it seems there are quite afew inactive and df or da people but then there seems to be alot of chat about meetings etc.. for the record, i was raised jw from age 5, baptised at 15 and df at 17 and reinstated at 18. i would call myself inactive...most of my family are still active but talk and associate with me.

herk

Tiffany,

The WT redefined the word "generation." Some JWs are still not aware of that, but it did give the Society an excuse for prolonging the period from 1914 to Armageddon, cushioning the impact of the cry "the end is just around the corner."

I don't think the Society has updated their public talk outlines, so some speakers still talk as if the generation from 1914 is a literal period. So I've heard.

The WT still preaches that the end is awfully close, so if ya don't wanna die at Armageddon ya better hurry up and get back into God's one and only true organization! Everybody hurry now.

Herk

53

not my enemy

by teejay in

jw
friends

following on the heels of what bowen said about ray, i began to see a statement that real soon began to get under my skin.

i've read it several times since and i hafta say: that little irritant is beginning to fester more than i care for.

the statement was something in the neighborhood of, "let's not get side-tracked with this franz / bowen fiasco and remember who our real enemy is... the watchtower society!".

herk

I think Jesus authorized us to view JWs as our genuine enemies when he said, "A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD." (Matt. 10:36) But he also said, "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND PRAY FOR THOSE WHO PERSECUTE YOU." (Matt. 5:44)

Herk

112

Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".

i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.

it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.

herk

Danny,

Now I have to disagree with you. Jesus meant what he said about being cautious. You yourself don't use your real name in these threads, so aren't you in effect condemning your own actions when you state that "Suggesting that an individual modify his name, opinion, or written expression to avoid scrutiny is a form of deception."?

Herk

17

Question about the Annointed.

by patricia in

jw
friends

when you were still a jw, what was your concept of what happened to those of the "annointed" who had died.

i remember the scoffing and tittering when we were out in field service when a householder mentioned their belief that their loved ones were in "heaven".

we were told to ask them "what was heaven like?, were there pearly gates, did people eat up there, did they have emotions?

herk

Patricia,

For me, your question is most interesting. It made me realize something a bit profound. When Nathan Knorr and Grant Suiter, for example, were still alive, I dreaded being in their company. They had a way of intimidating us small people by their mannerisms and the way they spoke to us. After they died, I felt a measure of relief. I lost my dread of them.

If I really believed they were in heaven and still alive, nothing should have changed, except that I probably should have felt a greater dread. Now they would be able to see my every move and hear my every word, perhaps even know what I was thinking. Actually, I gave such men less and less thought as time passed by after they became dead.

I think I was a typical JW. So you've given me reason to believe that the average JW doesn't really think deeply about the implications of a heavenly existence for "the anointed."

Herk

19

Newbie with question

by outbackaussie in

jw
friends

been browsing around...and i have to say it is alittle difficult to tell if this is a pro or anti jw site.

any takers on filling me in on what the attitudes are around here?

it seems there are quite afew inactive and df or da people but then there seems to be alot of chat about meetings etc.. for the record, i was raised jw from age 5, baptised at 15 and df at 17 and reinstated at 18. i would call myself inactive...most of my family are still active but talk and associate with me.

herk

Outbackaussie,

Where've you been? The WT said the end would come before the end of the 20th century. How'd you miss it?

Herk

112

Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".

i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.

it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.

herk

Danny,

I think you misunderstood Hawkaw. He was advocating discretion, not political correctness. Jesus himself said we need to be "cautious as serpents" when dealing with those who hate us or what we stand for.

I agree that it's wise not to set a future trap for ourselves. It would be foolish to give WT lawyers an advantage by linking our personal name to something said on the internet or otherwise in the public eye that could be used against us in a court trial.

Your points are good. In fact, they're very good. But I think you're applying the use of reason against something that Hawkaw never said or meant.

Herk

12

When does a christian receive the Holy Spirit?

by barry in

from the new world translation.2 corinthians 1 verse 22 he has put this seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come that is the spirit in our hearts.

from this its saying its some future event when a christian receives the holy spirit.. my new english bible says.

who has placed his mark of ownership upon us, and who has given us the holy spirit in our hearts as the guarantee of all that he has in store for us.

herk

Barry,

I'm not a defender of the WT Society, but I don't think the NWT can be faulted here. It actually follows the Greek better than some other translations and gives fuller expression to what Paul meant. It doesn't really say that the coming of the spirit is something future. Instead, it shows that it has already occurred:

"He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts."

The "token" is not "what is to come." Instead, as indicated by the Greek, "the token of what is to come" is an interconnected group of words that corresponds with "the spirit, in our hearts."

A similar sentence would be:

"He also placed his claim on her and gave her the token of what is to come, that is, a beautiful diamond engagement ring."

In both sentences, the "token of what is to come" has already been given. In the first one the seal and the token are the spirit, and in the second the placing and the giving are the ring. The token in neither case is "what is to come," but it is a sign or indication of what is to come.

Herk

53

not my enemy

by teejay in

jw
friends

following on the heels of what bowen said about ray, i began to see a statement that real soon began to get under my skin.

i've read it several times since and i hafta say: that little irritant is beginning to fester more than i care for.

the statement was something in the neighborhood of, "let's not get side-tracked with this franz / bowen fiasco and remember who our real enemy is... the watchtower society!".

herk

Outoftheorg,

While I understand what you're saying, I hope you haven't missed my point. It was while Jesus was being murdered that he asked God to forgive the murderers. Murder is more serious than being punched in the face, even if the punches are many. I'm not wanting to argue about this. I simply want to point out that Jesus' view seems to be that people who are blind as they persecute ought to be given some allowance for their blindness. As a JW I was blind and I persecuted in my blindness. I'm grateful it wasn't held against me. If it had been, most likely my eyes would never have been opened even as I engaged in persecuting. Paul was in a forgiven state even as he raced to Damascus for the purpose of throwing Christians in prison.

Jesus also said we should pray for those who persecute us and to love our enemies. To pray "for" them suggests it be because we want something good to come their way. And I don't see how we can actually "love" someone we haven't forgiven even though they're still our enemies.

Herk

53

not my enemy

by teejay in

jw
friends

following on the heels of what bowen said about ray, i began to see a statement that real soon began to get under my skin.

i've read it several times since and i hafta say: that little irritant is beginning to fester more than i care for.

the statement was something in the neighborhood of, "let's not get side-tracked with this franz / bowen fiasco and remember who our real enemy is... the watchtower society!".

herk

Outoftheorg,

While I can appreciate how you feel, I think we have to balance that view with what Jesus said: "Forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."

If we were still in the organization, we would probably treat so-called "apostates" in the same way that we're being treated. For several decades I shunned those who were thrown out or who abandoned JWs. I hope I'm forgiven. And I see no reason to believe that I'm not.

Hopefully, we will be in a position to welcome hundreds, perhaps thousands, with forgiveness and friendship as they make their escape from the kind of blind thinking we once engaged in ourselves.

Herk

26

Christ's return is NOT invisible!

by fjtoth in

one of the principal teachings of jws is that christ's return was invisible in 1914. this, in my mind, is one of the strongest proofs that they ignore the bible and instead devote their lives to the false teachings of a man-made organization.

mt 24:30 - "and then the sign of the son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

" mt 26:64 - "yet i say to you men, from henceforth you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.

herk

Carm,

You claim those who believe in Adam and Eve and Noah are living in a fantasy world, yet you believe Jesus existed. Additionally you say you accept what Jesus said about his return.

Jesus believed in Adam and Eve and in the flood of Noah's day. (Mt 19:4; 24:37, 38; Mr 10:6; Lu 17:26, 27) Why believe what he said about his return if you don't believe what he believed and said about the ancient past?

Herk