Posts by Marcos

18

Weird and unusual Kingdom Halls

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

does anyone here have any experiences with any unusual kingdom halls, such as architecture, location and furnishings.

in eaton ohio there was a small kingdom hall that sat next to the railroad tracks and everytime the train went by it shook the building.

in salyersville ky there was a small kingdom hall in a storefront buliding, no sound system and they had a kerosene heater at the back of the hall.

Marcos

Kingdom Hall my parents went to in McKinney, TX used to have an outdoor toilet just before they got there in the middle 60s. One of my friends who had gone there before there was a Spanish language hall available in Dallas told me an interesting story. Seems the City had notified them a few times to get rid of the outhouse and install indoor plumbing. Came the final notice and the overseer gets up at the conclusion of one of the meetings and says, "Brothers, we have to do something about this plumbing problem or the City is gonna catch us with our pants down..." I knew the guy. He definitely said this in all seriousness.

Any of you read the book or see the movie "Texasville"? Well, this cong was Texasville East . The same bro who told me the first story told about the time he was actually invited to give one of the prayers at a meeting. At this time messikans were allowed to go to the "white" hall. (As a matter of fact, driver's licenses listed Hispanics as white, yaaa hoo!) Anyway, he gets up to give the prayer and sincerely asks the Lord to, "forgive us for our falling-shorts (that is, shortcomings)."

Most unusual hall I ever saw was in an old bank building in Niagara Falls, NY. It was all marble interior and even had a vault! Nice place.

Marcos

Edited for spelling

Edited by - marcos on 5 January 2003 18:19:25

17

re: lastest fuss on getting rid of inactives

by bay64me in

jw
friends

a lot has been discussed here of late about the disfellowshiping of inactive ones.. in my old hall i know a sister that started smoking again and when found out she insisted that her reproof must be private and not public otherwise she would never return to the hall.

she pulled it off.. i know a brother that became inactive and started smoking.

the elders appeared to leave him alone, but one day they pounced and he is now disfellowshipped.. i know a ministerial servant that caused a great deal of upset in the congregation because of his lies and decietfulness, (causing divisions).

Marcos

Gopher,

This:

because the Society didn't "tell them to go shepherd", they stayed busying preparing meeting parts and leading the service groups in their coffee breaks and meaningless return visits.

Reminds me of something that happened in Japan when I lived there. A Japanese submarine rammed a Japanese fishing boat in (I believe) Tokyo Bay. As the boat sank and the fishermen were crying out for help, the sailors on the sub just leaned on the rail and watched them go under and drown. Later, when asked why they didnt help they said, "no one ordered us to."

The WT mindset is not too different. One does not want to go ahead of the organization, one does not want to be a modern day Uzzah ( 2Samuel 6:7 ) and attempt to steady the ark, as it were. Even if it might be to help someone.

Marcos

Edited by - marcos on 4 January 2003 14:11:49

22

What Does Seattle Have for Fun?

by Robdar in

jw
friends

we will be in seattle in a couple of weeks.

if there is anybody on this forum that can tell me some fun things for us to do while we are there besides the obvious?.

robyn .

Marcos

Hey Robdar,

I don't know if you like driving around but on nice day trip is to drive to Mukilteo and take the ferry over to Clinton on Whidbey Island. You can drive the length of the island and see some small towns along the way. One town is Coupeville. Small but interesting to look at. Lots of small shops and restautants. Penn Cove mussels are a local specialty. There is a museum/restaurant at the end of a pier that is interesting.

From Coupeville continue north to Oak Harbor the county seat of Island County. Oak Harbor's main claim to fame is the Navy Base. In general, Oak Harbor is clean and well laid-out. Continue on the main hiway to the Deception Pass Bridge. This is a beautiful sight! The bridge spans a narrow straight and there is a park that has trails that lead down to the water. Take a camera and shoot this bridge from every possible angle. The cliffs, trees, water and mist are incredible!

From there you can continue on to Anacortes and take a ferry to Victoria / Vancouver or to visit the other San Juan Islands. This area is beautiful even in the middle of winter. That is to say, the whole state.

Alternately, you can head back to Seattle on the side roads (this takes a while) or by I-5 (about an hour and a half) Stop by any city or town on the way. It is all interesting.

An interesting thing (for me) is when you get to the road that leads south from Anacortes, just before you leave Lopez Island, there is an Indian casino (the Swinomish tribe). Next door to the casino is a very well stocked tobacco shop. If you want to pick up any tobacco product (like a box of good cigars, hint, hint) you can get a pretty good price and avoid an UNGODLY state tobacco tax. I think the tax is currently at about 75%. There will be no more chances on the way to Seattle. There is another "rez" in Marysville, but last time I checked, they were out of the tobacco business.

My, how I DO go on about my hobbies! Sorry.

Just some ideas. Someone who lives there can tell you more about the area. You can also reverse the trip and it is just as interesting.

Marcos

P.S. About the ferry. I lived on Whidbey for a short time (about 3 months) and commuted to a contstruction job daily on the mainland. The trip is short, about 15 or 20 min. But the things that can happen! Did you know that orcas (killer whales) have the right-of-way!? If a pod of whales crossed in front of the ferry, the ferry must stop. You could be in for a real treat as you watch them swim by. No guarantee but it is a possibility.

40

Watchtower lies through their teeth.

by GeddyLee in

i just returned from some nice r@r in cancun mexico.

while i was their i had some time to go downtown to their municipal offices, and confront one of their officials face to face on whether the jehovahs witnesses were ever banned in their country.having read crisis of concsience , i have always been interested in finding out the truth of this matter for myself.

whether they were actually under a ban, or was it the watchtowers way of holding on to their real estate.

Marcos

Hi GeddyLee,

You said:

They said they were a social group so that they could retain ownership of their real estate.

I never did attend a kh here in Mexico but when I was at the (Spanish Language) hall I attended in Dallas and at the Brooklyn Headquarters we were told that the WT was registered in Mexico at that time, late '60s and early 70's, as a "cultural organization" (Asociacion Cultural, I think). They may have mentioned that it was done to be able to retain title to property. I can't remember. It seems logical.

But yes, they probably did tell the brothers that they were being persecuted. Sounds about right. I can't really ask anyone here because, well you know, I don't want to sully any of the witnesses by talking to them.

Marcos

5

The Third World Factor/Watchtower

by metatron in

jw
friends

in relation to the watchtower's decline, in money and doctrine, the third world factor.

rarely is brought up.

originally, witnesses were mostly american and european but.

Marcos

P.S. Metatron,

We're not all "third world types" here in Mexico and Latin America. We have a burgeoning, well-educated middle class. Some of us even have computers!

Damn! Gotta go. Have to chase those pinche pigs out of mama's kitchen again!

Marcos

Edited by - marcos on 31 December 2002 14:18:2

5

The Third World Factor/Watchtower

by metatron in

jw
friends

in relation to the watchtower's decline, in money and doctrine, the third world factor.

rarely is brought up.

originally, witnesses were mostly american and european but.

Marcos

Metatron,

The Third World/Watchtower factor

Very true. The growth of the WT and the Mormons is, by all reports phenomenal here in Mexico.

I see at as a backlash to Catholicism. People are not happy with the church/state coziness in this "secular" nation of the past and are looking for ANY way to change.

Marcos

45

Jesus Is God (John 1:1)

by JesusISJehovah in

according to john 1:1, jesus is god.

how do jehovah's witnesses rationalize that blatant statement of jesus' deity?

Marcos

To JesusISJehovah and all.

I am sincerely impressed by the scholarship evident on this thread! Another reason to continue visiting here.

2 points. #1. JesusISJehovah says:

he wanted the Jews to refer to him as I AM, and they spoke Yiddish.

I would believe that this is a typo except for the fact that you said it again in the same post. (Anyone) correct me if I am wrong but either the Germans have been around a lot longer than we give them credit for or your understanding of linguistics may be flawed. Yiddish is a Hebrew-German pidgin and only came into use as the Jews began living among the Germans. There is another, perhaps older, pidgin called Sehphardic (Spanish) that was and is currently spoken by the Marranos (Spanish for pig as the Jews were designated by their inquisitors) who are Spanish Jews who were expelled from Spain during the Inquisition. These people still live in North Africa, Asia Minor and in the Balkans as well as in Latin America.

As for the question of whether Jesus is Jehovah, I believe that he did make that claim in referring to himself as the I AM.

John 8:56-58. Jesus speaking to unbelieving Jews. "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?" "I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!" Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)

John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins." In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...."

John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner. "Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?' 'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied. 'I AM,' Jesus said. When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." The force of Jesus' claim to be Yahweh (I AM) was so powerful that it literally knocked the arresting officers and the Jewish priests off their feet!

Paraphrased from this site: http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/claims.html

This is a new concept for me since I spent most of my early years as a JW.

Marcos

Edited for continuity. And because I had a hard time getting the formatting right!

Edited by - marcos on 31 December 2002 13:42:55

Edited by - marcos on 31 December 2002 13:46:12

12

In defense of the Borg....

by Thunder Rider in

jw
friends

i must say that i am troubled by those of you who have likened the jw's to the borg.

the collective is nothing like the organization.

the borg assimilate and improve themselves as a whole.

Marcos

siegswife,

Chingus - anglicized form of chingazo or chingadera; a thing. Vugar. Derived from the verb chingar to f**k. Meaning "that f**king thing.

But it does fit the use, doesn't it?

Marcos

50

More Venting

by gilwarrior in

jw
friends

right now i am really mad and depressed.

in my job as a cab driver, i have only working one day out of the last six!

i have to get another job.

Marcos

Gil,

I have posted to you before and sent you e-mails. I do understand some of what you are going through. But I must ask you,

Are you having us on?

I just would like to know if you are really having problems or if you are enjoying the attention you generate. I have no intention of belittling you. However, a few people have come on this board just to provoke reactions. Give us a clue because if you are using the board for amusement it is cruel and a waste of everyones time.

Now, I have followed most of your posts. One thing that sticks out in my mind is that you mentioned that you do not get along with people. Well, you are almost 30 years old (if memory serves). Get a grip. Suck it up and begin to relate to people in a constructive manner even if it hurts.

You might consider something that has worked well for me personally in developing patience and people-skills. That is, take a job as a waiter. Doing this, you HAVE to treat the customer with respect and kindness even the hard-to-deal-with ones. The downside is that your feet will hurt and you will take a lot of crap. The upside is that, if you learn to serve your customer well, you can make more tips in one night than you would make in salary as a cab driver in a week. 20 years ago, I averaged $100 a night in tips in a small to medium city. Las Vegas should be much better. Chances of getting a job should be good because it is usually a high-turnover business. And, it is easy to learn with the possible exception of the high-end restaurants and banquets.

This is something you could start tomorrow morning! You may be suffering now from depression and inertia. Get up early and go out and get a job tomorrow. You can probably even keep your one-day a week as a cabbie.

It is obvious that the people here care about you. Keep talking to us but dont play with us.

Respectfully Your Friend,

Marcos

43

Bring the draft back? I fear for our sons..

by LyinEyes in

jw
friends

i am feeling a bit emotional today,,,,,, i was watching cnn today and there is a big debate going on , if they are going to do another draft like back in the vietnam war.

this made me stand still in my tracks.

omg.

Marcos

Hey LyinEyes,

Reading this post brings back a lot of memories for me. I was prime for the US draft when I was a teenager. Any young man, regardless of nationality, was eligible. I was a witness at the time and dutifully declined to go into the military.

I also chose not to go to Canada. I spoke to the board, was offered options and declined. I was threatened with jail time and was so convinced of the correctness of my decision that I simply told them to bring it on. This was in Texas. Nationalism was high, especially in the south. My mothers family (consisting originally of 10 uncles) were ALL military. It wasnt an easy decision.

I saw (worldly) friends go into the military. Some came home some didnt. I saw friends that were witnesses go to jail and others not.

I have never criticized anyone for going into the military. The only thing that shamed me was the treatment received by a lot, if not most, of the guys returning home. I thought then as I do now that most of them did what they felt was their duty and obligation.

As for my personal decision not to go, I did not and do not regret it. My decision was based on conscience. Knowing then what I know now I would still be a conscientious objector. The only difference is that I would have opted for alternative service. For me, however, possibly dying was not the issue. My decision was based on my understanding of the Bible and how I view my relation to the government.

Perhaps it is inappropriate for me to offer advice. But, being who I am, here is my advice. You dont have to be a member of a religious organization to claim status as a conscientious objector. If I am mistake in this belief, someone will undoubtedly correct me.

If your son(s) make the decision to volunteer or to sign up for the draft, you would do well to respect their feelings. If you stand in the way they will probably resent it. If you dont you will be showing them that you respect them as young men and they will love you for it. Forgive me for saying this but, if the only reason they can give for not going is, my mama wont let me, they will feel humiliated. Not good for a healthy relationship.

If they accept service or refuse it it should be because they truly believe in their particular decision. Needless to say, the government wont accept a half-hearted excuse either. You have trained your son. There is much more you can (and will) teach him. But you have to rely on his understanding and application of your teaching. It is time for him to start to reason on his own and come to a workable understanding of his reasons for going or not.

Believe me, as a father, I would be heartbroken to see my own son go to war. I am proud of him as a son and would be proud of him if he were an American and decided to go. I would be equally proud of him if his conscience would not allow it. But, in any event, it would be his decision. You really cant make it for him.

I have nothing but high regard for the men and women who decide that military service is what they must do. And, I am touched and saddened when some of them die in service. I firmly believe that it IS a matter of conscience.

I doubt that this is of much comfort to you or to any other mother or father who might face such a prospect. But I hope that in some way what I have said will be useful.

Marcos