I had a friend ask me about how to handle a Witness at her work place who acted a lot like this. (She asked me because she knew my history.) The advise I gave her was to wait until the witness tried to share her beliefs (witnessing). When they do that "I don't celebrate because it's pagan, blah, blah, blah, state "I appreciate what your saying but it seems like a very unkind religion that tries to suck the joy out of everyday life (insert example)". "I find it difficult when you state you don't celebrate, yet you sneak a piece of cake when we're not looking." Do JW's consider themselves Christians, Muslims, or Jewish, I'm curious? When they say Christian, in flat voice, "Oh, that surprises me." Then let it go, and state the conversation is making you uncomfortable. Make sure this is done in front of other coworkers. The Witness will think twice before bringing up their beliefs and may modify the behavior to be more socially acceptable. It's passive aggressive, but effective. The key is not to say too much or argue.
Posts by Anne
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4Bad Advice Column-jws & Holidays
by rebel8 inthis morning's syndicated column by marie g. mcintyre: .
"q. i'm not sure how to handle a new employee whose religious beliefs prevent her from acknowledging christmas, easter, valentine's day or birthdays.
in our small business, the owners have always encouraged us to celebrate these holidays.
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34
Did you SAVE money by using a hotel on the recommended lodging list?
by truthseeker ini haven't seen this question posted here before, but did any of you who stayed at one of the hotels on the society's recommended lodging list save money than if you attended a hotel not on the list?.
having seen a few of these lists, it seems the rates given are expensive..
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Anne
This jogged a memory. When my parents first joined the cult they were given the guilt trip to go to the district assembly 5 hours away. My dad was laid off his job at the time and my mom did not work outside the home. My folks have always been poor anyway, but we were almost destitute that summer. But "jehovah will provide". Anyway they loaded their six children into their half way running van that they bought from very used from the telephone company. Dad built benches for us to sit on and bolted them down, no seat belts. The van broke down half way there. My Dad flagged down people that were on the way there too (strangers), and we were divided between a few families and went on our merry way. Since they had to fix the van they didn't have any money to pay for the camp site, and all of our camping gear was left behind anyway. Dad wound up talking to someone in the rooming department and a local witness let us stay in their pop up camper in their yard. I remember how my parents were just amazed that "Jehovah provided." Now as an adult I look back and think about how irresponsible they were. My youngest brother was an infant and my oldest brother was all of 11. They were just lucky nothing really terrible happened. When school started my folks couldn't even afford supplies after that fiasco. Silly, deluded people.
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42
Is my life reaching to a dead end?I need a way out...
by justhuman ini just don't know what to do...it seems that i have been carrying this burden since i was born.
and the burden is to be raised and live for 33 years in the most mind destructive cult the watchtower.
after i have been disfellowshiped 2 years ago(yes my wife turned me to the "loving"elders for apostasy)i left home.
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Anne
Have a serious sit down with her. Tell her that she is not allowed to disrespect you in front of the children. It's disrespectful for her to ask you to leave so that she can have people over at your house. How old are your children? If they are old enough get them involved in activities away from the cult. Don't stop mommy from taking them to the boring meetings, they will decide not to go on their own soon enough. Just make sure that you are around to keep her from guilt tripping them into it. If she continues with the emotional abuse, make notes. Get a good lawyer. With a documented history of mental and emotional abuse because of the cult you should be able to leave with custody of the kids. She'll also have to pay you child support. That leads to another question. Does your wife work? If not she has to get a job. No more funding of the JW train from you.
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6
Need advice about family dynamics
by Anne ini don't post much, i guess i usually just don't have anything interesting to say.
(didn't comment much at meetings either.
anyway, been in a bit of a quandry about what to do about holidays.
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Anne
no, the "is it worth it", wasn't in reference to my kids. It was more in reference is it worth celebrating holidays and risking alienating my family. I want my children to have a relationship with their grandparents, just on a controlled basis. Right now they are very young. I think maybe I'm making more out of something than I should. Sometimes writing something down makes it more clear. I'm not going to be held like some sort of hostage to a religion I do not believe in.
I don't think my parents would go the court route. They know I have a temper. My children will always come first, and if it means alienating my parents and some of my siblings then so be it.
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6
Need advice about family dynamics
by Anne ini don't post much, i guess i usually just don't have anything interesting to say.
(didn't comment much at meetings either.
anyway, been in a bit of a quandry about what to do about holidays.
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Anne
I don't post much, I guess I usually just don't have anything interesting to say. (Didn't comment much at meetings either.)
Anyway, been in a bit of a quandry about what to do about holidays. I want to raise my children as "normally" as possible. We live in a conservative midwestern US city in a middle class area. My husband and I are a couple of JW dropouts, both raised in it. The difference is he still believes on some levels because that is what he was taught. He just doesn't care enough to do anything about it. The ironic thing is his mother has also turned into a meeting skipping doubter (never thought that would happen). My question is will they automatically read me "as no-longer one of JW's" if we start celebrating holidays. We've already celebrated our birthdays, handed out candy on Holloween (gasp!), and had the in-laws over for turkey on Thanksgiving. I'm thinking next year we'll do Christmas. Not so much as a religious holiday, but more as a social holiday. I think that holidays and observances serve as a way to connect communities and provide a shared reference point.
The only reason we're even having any problems with any of this is because my parents are still in (big time). They recently moved to our city. (My husband and I discussed moving away because of them, but we like it here and were here first.) My parents actually stayed with us for a couple of months, we didn't hear one word of "encouragment" during that time (probably because I would have told them to stay with their "friends"). Now they are starting to bug me. It is amazing how if you know the arguement they are going to make, you can shut them down with out saying much. (i.e. Mom: The weather is so bad, hurricanes and other disasters, the end must be near. Me: Well you know the sky is falling. followed by blank stare.) She even went so far as to bring the service group to my house last week without calling first. I would think that my snotty comments would get my point across, along with coming right out and saying that we are not raising our kids as Witnesses, so no thank you for the Bible Story Book.
My parents will not shun me if I am DF, they don't shun my DF sister. Also other than my mom occasionally babysitting for me they do not see my children unless we are there. (My dad's nuts, and I have serious issues with their parenting style when I was growing up.) I will probably loose contact with one brother, and possibly another brother and sister. Don't really care about any old "friends". Made peace with that chapter of my life. The only loose end would be my dad said something about grandparents having rights when I told him no thank you for the BS book. I do know of one family where the grandparents have the children for two weeks during the summer because they went to court.
My fear is that they would try to do something like that if I went from being a passive-aggressive snott to being an all out appostate. Then the question is, Is it worth it?
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25
why take the time to "fade"?
by doogie inhey guys,.
i'm perplexed by something and i don't know how well it will be received on this board but i'm really curious.
why did you take the time to fade away vs. just daing yourself?.
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Anne
I'm mostly just a lurker, but this thread is about something that I wrestled with.
I agree with Blondie's post that it's their rules and we don't have to play by them. For some of us to keep family relationships intact it is necessary to fade. I myself faded without really intending to, or knowing that other people had a name for it.
It would have been easier to just D/A myself and wrapped up all the loose ends in a nice package. It would have completely ended a chapter in my life. (I probably would not feel the need to lurk on sites such as this, or dwell on the JW thing at all. The finality of it is enticing.) But because of those I love, I will make it easier for them to have a relationship with me.
It also makes it easier to assist those who are blind to find their way. My youngest sister has been floundering in self imposed pioneer hell for quite some time. She knows she needs to do something else, but is afraid. For her being a JW is a part of her identity. I would not and could not take that away from her at this time in her life. But what I can do is offer her a life raft. Suggestions, questions, nudges in the right direction. Now she is going to go to college (in her mind so she can better support herself pioneering). Baby steps towards a different life. If I was D/A or D/F I would not be able to have any influence, instead I would be looked on as evil. It's the only loophole that I have.
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16
Trouble dealing with life as an ex-JW
by YellowLab ini'm interested in finding out if anyone here who is an ex-dub has taken or still takes prescription anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication to deal with feelings of inadequacy and inexperience with life outside of the wts, relationship problems, stress/anger, low self-esteem, etc.. i still suffer with self-esteem/image problems as well as stress with life in general after leaving the wts.
i often feel alone and inexperienced when dealing with life's problems, and often find it difficult to handle conflict/disagreements with loved ones when they arise.
i feel these occurrences are a personal attack on myself.. i just started attending counseling to deal with these problems, and it was mentioned that an anti-depressant may help.
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Anne
HI! Yellow Lab,
I think your on the right track with counseling. If you think an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication might help you I would suggest that you see a good medical doctor for a physical first. Sometimes there can be an underlying physical reason for the problem. I went through a period of depression in my early 20's that I found out was due to a thyroid disorder. At the time I thought I was losing my mind.
Later I went though another bout of the blues when I was fading from dubdom. I did take Celexa (antidepressant) for a time, but as time went on was able to stop. It did help me to control my emotions at the time.
Anne
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34
Getting Baptized, did you really want to, or did you feel extreme pressure?
by run dont walk ini was never baptized, but boy did i feel the pressure ....... what are you waiting for ???
don't you love jehovah ???
(i was in my late teens and brought up in the borg)
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Anne
When I was baptised as a JW it was because I wanted to. But then again I was 13 and probably would have married my first crush because I wanted to.
For children who are raised as JW getting baptised is roughly equivalent to confirmation that many other religions require for their young people. The difference is the repercussions.
For example: I have a younger sister who was DF for smoking when she was 16, she was shunned by the congregation by their usual rules. In contrast my youngest brother has never been baptised. He smokes (much to the disgust of my parents), but he is not shunned even though you can definitly smell it on him and he sneaks outside often. He is not shunned, and almost the entire congregation went to his high school graduation recently. Hmmm, you can't tell me one is worse or better than the other because one of them made a choice to be dunked in water when they were 14. I think the definition of what is immoral is missed by the rules.
At the time I was baptised my family lived in northern MN, USA. Kind of funny but I think I saw the circuit overseers name who gave the talk when I was going down a list of people who have left. His last name was Cole I think.
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Did you get made fun of when you were in school?
by doodle-v indid you get made fun of when you were in school?
i'm curious to know because when i was in junior high i was constantly picked on made fun of and the butt of many jokes.
even remembering that hurts till this day.
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Anne
Grade school was very weird for me. I was in Catholic school until second grade, then my parents put me in public school, and basically went over-righteous on the JW thing. We weren't allowed to have "worldly" friends, and since there were no other JW children in that area that ment NO friends. Even after we moved to a bigger town there was never any JW children my age, just a few several years younger. By Jr high I was considered just plain weird by most of the other kids at school, never picked on, just ignored.
What I regrete most is that I was still in the JW's for most of the time I was going to college. I miss the fact that I didn't develop those friendships more. That was a very painful time for me. I was being invited to parties and the like by all the so called worldly people, and I would never go. I can remember almost being begged to go out with a few girlfriends. At the time I thought it was some kind of badge of honor that I resisted.
The real kicker was at the time I was regular pioneering and being ditched all the time for service, and not being invited to socialize with the Witnesses. So I wasn't supposed to have "worldly" friends, and the Witnesses didn't want me. Hmmm?
Looking back I now understand why. Alot of the young people in the congregation were involved in much worse things than went on at any of the worldly parties I was invited to. They didn't want me around because they were afraid I'd tattle, when it was all young people in the service group, they didn't want me because then they'd actually have to go out.
I was such an uptight little snot. My friends from college tell me they wanted to take me out and tarnish the halo.
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11
My mother, the elder...(No, I'm not kidding)
by logansrun inone of the more unusual secrets in my family is the fact that for years my mother has written every talk my grandfather -- an elder, the service overseer -- has given from the platform.
a little background: my grandfather was appointed ever since the elder arrangement was put in place in the early 70's.
he's originally from poland and his english is decent, but not great.
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Anne
I used to "help" my hubby with his talks too. After we were married they told him his talks greatly improved.