some of us are bigger bitches than others.............. .
bitchdom .
when i stand up for myself and my beliefs, they call me a bitch.
As long as Im not someones bitch in the Big House, I dont care. It will always be a mans world, so ultimately "bitches" realize they are beating their head against a brick wall. The smart ones put on a hard hat and go on about their business undeterred. It is impossible to accomplish anything without pissing a few people off.
"There are two kinds of women: Those who have secretaries. And those who are secretaries." ~Unknown wise woman
don't know if this is the appropriate place to post this it certainly isn't a jw belief and i don't believe in believing (much of anything), but i'm always theorizing always speculatin' and heres a particular speculation i've been hypothesizing for some while now, something a really powerful post in this forum inspired me to throw out here for your perusal.
whatever the reaction, your sure to have one!.
think about this, you know suffering, struggling, forging on .
I'm Spartacus!
No, I AM Tiger Woods!
Be your own Messiah.
gen 2:17 - god says: eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad and you will absolutely die!.
gen 3:5 - satan says: god knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like god knowing good and bad.. .
so what happen?.
I think what "God" was talking about was the only day that would make sense to Adam. 24 hours. None of know what it is to be sinless, even You Know.
But if we sinless(how can you not think sin? Isnt that flawed/limited?) and then committed a sin contrary to God's command, somehow Im certain we'd feel it. So, in a sense Adam did "die" in the day he ate the fruit, by starting the process of degeneration that leads to death. To God, and for himself he did die on that day. The 24 hour manifestation of sin and within 1000 years (God's day)
This is what I find troubling: Only one of 2 beings could start the decline process. Adam or God. When Adam broke Gods command by eating the fruit, God allowed it to happen. I dont hold God responsible for that. However, there was NO WAY for Adam to redeem himself. Only God could do that.
So only God could break, amend, change the law/sentence. Even with Jesus sacrifice, we still cannot redeem ourselves. And yet, this is exactly what is prescribed at the "end of the 1000 year reign". Each person must prove himself; alone.
It's not a fair test right NOW. Like Las Vegas even when we win (do what God says is right) we lose(sin)
Armageddon is the most curious of all Gods methodologies. Why kill people who cannot win a contest to remove the effects of a system and a rival (Satan) which you allow in the first place and cant be beaten by the cardplayers.
It would be like Steve Wynn, killing all the tourists in Las Vegas(goats), as well as some of the residents(unfaithful sheep), leveling all the casinos, just to build a bigger Mirage so you can teach the new cardplayers how to win.
he asked if i was going to the circuit assembly this weekend.
he asked why.
i just said after a long pause, dad it's not the truth (you have to understand that i'm the one who preached to this man and got him in the truth) the conversation lasted about 5 minutes with him saying well who else teaches the right thing, you have to understand, jehovah has to have an organization.
Cygnus,
"Millions living now will never die!"
How many of those "millions" are left? I suppose that MAN who was the ORGANIZATION made a mistake.
Now, long after his death his spinmeister descendents amend that to saying, "Well, they're living in Gods memory, so their not really dead."
With the WTBS it is _always_ a qualified statement. Usually the provision comes at a later date after the original guideline has proved faulty. The Watchtower gift of prophecy is no better than that of Miss Cleo. Are you certain you want to live according to her whims? Same difference between her and GB. At least Miss Cleo has 40-50 years less senility.
"Contradictions cannot exist. Check your premises." ~The Virtue of Selfishness
for the first time in a long time i actually have something to look forward to.
knowing that i no longer will be under the constraints of a oppresive religion has done a lot for me.
(and i have'nt left yet) .
Leander,
Go for it!
The Time of Troubles for me (read as conflict between JW world and the real world) was 17-22. The college years. Dont fall into the JW time trap mindset in the real world. By that I mean dont say well, I am 29, 39, too late for college. Wrong! That's all or nothing thinking, modus operandi of the Borg. The only thing that makes college more awkward after 25+ is that you have more life responsibilites. If you can manage it and are willing to sacrifice (summer school, winter session) you can easily get your degree within 4 years. If it a means to an end (job thing)remember that only around 23% of working age population in USA has college degree. Congratulations, you'll have one in your 30's or 40's and 77% of your age group will not. Still lots of time for it to be "practical".
If college is for you, for the experience and joy of learning, even better. Age is irrelevant. In any case in 4 years, without question you'll be 4 years older. What you do with those 4 years can influence the rest of your life. Best wishes.
should we fear death?.
how do you feel about dying?.
after leaving the witnesses i find i am ever more aware of my own mortality.before i could comfort myself with the idea that i could be ressurected.i think the realisation that death will completly end my life , and that there was nothing afterward , was one of the most difficult things to come to terms with.. generally i don't think about it , but when some happens and i do , the idea , quite frankly scares the hell out of me.. but does death really bring the end to us?.
Life is a time for making choices. Death is a time for remembering how we chose. Sometimes those memories are not plesant.
I think most people fear death because they look back at their lives and see regret at the decisions they made. They seldom regret what they did but rather what they did not do.
As far as death; do you fear sleep? Because before you die you will sleep first. And what is sleep? Unconsciousness. That is it. If you died in your sleep, you'd never know it. It's only while your alive that you fear it. Consider a dream so real, that while you're in it, you think it is real. But where are "you"? Maybe our lives are nothing more than aspects of Gods dream. Who knows?
Live life now because there are worse things than dying. My uncle had diabetes, lost both his legs, then died of kidney failure. But "lived" for years on dialysis and no legs. At the end it was it was grim. My other aunt has cancer and takes 53 pills a day, sleeps about 18 hrs and hasnt left her house in 4 years except to go to the hospital.
Life, true living is in the details we take for granted. The smile of your grandchildren, kiss of your lover, driving along and looking, I mean really looking at the wondrous beauty of the trees, flowers, etc. Gazing up at the heavens at night and sharing the experience with someone you call friend. A cheeseburger! Great sex. Bad sex.
Praise be to Jah, or Jesus or Darwin for our lives today. Now. And relative health to enjoy it.
To me this fear of death is one of the greatest rips of the JW religion because it is clearly inculcated to postphone living today to some undefined time in never-never land.
It's sad but only at the end do you realize that their feeble teachings are no match for the power that Death ultimately holds. The price for this realization is your life. Make certain you live it.
All hail the Borg!
"If a man is lucky he gets 70 years. If he's really lucky he gets 80. And if he's really, really lucky he has a half way decent head of hair for 50 of those 80 years" ~author unknown
whats the central belief of jehovahs witnesses?
the very core of the religion?.
some people, alanf for example, have at times suggested that it is nothing more or less than we (wtbts) speak for god .
Good thread Duncan,
Got a little sidetracked but regarding The Big One (armageddon). What happens to a failed sign? How long can a true believer be a member when life rejects your theories? 1995 Awake masthead obliteration was remarkable in that it was a WTBS admission that "1914 generation" was a crock. Wont matter though. JW's have enough steam to chug along to 2014. By then you'd have to be 100 at least. They will have to be more mainstream though. Simply no choice. Hard core fanatic fringe simply does not have the financial resources to fund them. Maybe they can sell some of their real estate holdings but in the end, I dont think JW's will be distinguishable from any other religion. Their only mantra of distinction today is that they are Gods channel, his mouthpiece. But how long can memorial numbers for annointed remain about 8000? It has INCREASED since I left and that was 10+ years ago.
Also, what sort of lesson is The Big One? Sheep live, goats die. Whats the point? Only the good get the lesson. Better lesson for the goats would be like Israel wandering the desert for 40 years. Too generous for God I suppose.
whats the central belief of jehovahs witnesses?
the very core of the religion?.
some people, alanf for example, have at times suggested that it is nothing more or less than we (wtbts) speak for god .
Duncan,
You wrote "An act, or sign, unmistakeably originating from God, would profoundly affect the way people view things. There may even be, for all I know, a dedicated hard-core percentage of humankind determined to oppose him, but surely that would be a vanishingly small minority. Most reasonable people would unfailingly want to be on the side of God. Once they knew, unmistakeably, what side that was."
Not certain about that. Few thoughts...
First of all, what sort of sign? Take Jesus. In the Bible I think only 4 people ever raised someone from the dead. Granted, one of them was a pile of bones (Elijah/Elisha?), Jesus, and Peter. What if TODAY, you saw someone raise someone from the DEAD? Real death. Lazarus decomposing in shroud type death. Would you belive? If so, why dont you believe now because Jesus already did that (allegedly). Now I wasnt there personally, but the account can either be true (fact) or false (lie, fable). But not both. Someone asked an interesting question thread regarding whether Satan can create life. If he can, and I was him, I would do it just to divert and confuse humans. If he cant because God "governs" life force authority, why dont you believe already? Why do you need another sign? Another problem is in other "holy" works there are similar stories. Like Pilate said, "What is Truth?"
Second of all how could you know the sign maker was God? See Satan vs Job. Jobs wife thought it was a sign from God. Even Job wasnt too sure. The least of the angels is far, far beyond man. Yet no so far above as to take on bodies and have sex with women. Hmm. Anyway, their power would seem 'godlike' But reduce the scale. Say, you were a gunsmith with machinist insight and could craft bullets and machine guns of today back in Israels time. Might not need those drums at Jericho.
Third point is I think there is something in man that resists, call it what you will, but I call it gods civilization. I find professional boxing a case in point. To me it is compelling not for the athletic spectacle but rather to observe the crowd. Men, women, all races, all ages, religions, etc react, cheer, for two men to beat each other up. Hopefully to unconsciousness. But if not blood will do. We compete independently. And competition is not always pretty. If not physically, then socially, monetarily, intellectually, in every way imaginable. Distinctions create division. The WTBS many times has referred to the Men of Old coming back to rule as "princes" Moses was an interesting guy, probably worthy of being a prince, but I tell you what, I would never bend my knee to him. That sentiment alone is probably a death sentence. I recall when I was about 16 an Elder gave a talk regarding the "New Order" where they would "learn war no more" and then drew a parallel to some kid playing violent video games learning war. Do you really want to live in a world where the only video games are on needlpoint? Or have someone else dictate/determine what you do in life?
"Brother Duncan you are going to be a construction worker for the time being. Start bulldozing those bodies in a mass grave, while I a "prince" pick out my mansion like property, I mean my humble abode. Fear not! This is Gods arrangement" Does that sit well with you? Even IF that is Gods arrangement?
Finally, why would you want to be on gods side? To live? Because he is "right"? Or it is our destiny because he is the "Creator"? OR is it because he is the most powerful and could protect/give us what he/you thought we needed/wanted without all this hassle we call "life". Bills, $$$, crime, pollution, etc.
Doleing out signs, life, items, in exchange for behavior and loyalty is bribery. You should serve your god because you want to and you find your life better for it. But read that sentence again. Isnt that self serving anyway? Pretty much.
what happened to it?
i never see anybody doing it anymore!
are they geting more ashamed if there peers from work and the neighors see them?.
Good question Beans!
Nice words eye view regarding the starch Iarc. The absolute worst place I went "door to door" was on the beach! There was a brother about my age who later went to Bethel who somehow got me to work the main street of our city. Then we followed that up with Beach witness.
This guy had the spirit. The one good thing I can say that came from that is ever since then I have had zero fear of man. I wonder why. Could it be not much of anything more awkward wearing a suit with dress shoes, handing out tracts and witnessing to people laying on their beach towels and bar-b-queing?
Insane.
after reading a couple of posts about the growing apathy among the r&f jws today i was reminded of the years following 1975 when the dropout rate was growing rapidly and the "faithful" die hards took it as a sign that the "end" was really really near since the winnowing process was removing so much chaff.
keep in mind that this was over 25 years ago.
it's been mentioned before but it is worth repeating that, no matter what is happening, religious fanatics(jws) always see it as a sign from god.
Liberty,
The problem is that most of the die hards <drum roll please> are DEAD!
What constitutes adult age? Well, if you are old enough to be drafted that's 18. Which means for 1975 to have had significant life impact you would have to have been born in 1957. Today you'd be closer to 50 than 40. Most people who are 50 are thinking about how many years they have left to work. Of course if you're a JW its moot. If your 50 you have to work 50 more years or you die.
Whichever comes first.
I think that if 1879 did not convince them, 1914, 1918, 1929, 1932, 1945, 1975, 1984, 1991, 1994,5, 9/11/01, 2002 Middle East, 2014. NOTHING will convince them. Unfortunately when they die, they'll still be unconvinced.
