Sex (no elaboration sorry lol), drinking, smoking occasional things hehe, cussing - basically enjoying life. Sometimes I catch myself with residual guilt, but it's fading. Old dub morals die hard.
kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
JoinedPosts by kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
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38
How rebellious did you get after leaving?
by JH inafter leaving a controlling sect, it?s normal to want to live ?freedom?.
what did you do to show that you were no longer under the influence of the watchtower?
did you grow a beard, start having sex with whoever, start drinking, start gambling?
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Is There ANYTHING That You Would Not Forgive?
by minimus insome of us might be naturally forgiving types.
others may not be so easy.
i've seen families extend forgiveness to persons who have killed one of their family.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
Against me, no worries, I can move on. The little boy I work with is 6 and autistic and completely vulnerable - if anyone ever laid a hand on him in any unkind or inappropriate manner I'd have a hard time not ripping them to shreds, and that's no my typical personality.
Kitties (of the "not yet a mommy but will definitely protect her cubs when the time comes" class)
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18
Is your family close??...
by Hecklerboy ini was talking to a good friend of mine the other night on the phone and i was telling him about my wife wondering why my family isn't very close.
when we started thinking about it we both decided it was because we grew up jw's.
i would love to be closer to my family, but it just seems we have nothing to talk about.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
I guess it depends on who you consider family. My blood relatives? Only close to my brother, but we're super close. My parents/sister/cousins/aunts/uncles/grandparents are all dubs who don't talk to me. But I've developed a wonderful family in my fabulous husband who I love more than life, his sister and her family who aren't dubs and especially some wonderful, amazing friends who I consider family. Blood has very little to do with love.
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190
All Secret Santa Paricipants sign in here please!
by Gadget inthe details of who to send a gift to will be getting pm'd to you all either friday afternoon or saturday morning!
according to the information i've found online the last posting day for standard parcels is dec 11th for usa and december 15th for the uk/europe, so you should all have plenty of time to select and send a gift, although sending sooner rather than later is prefered.
can everyone taking part post on this thread what things they like, what their interests are etc so that the person who is buying a gift for you has some idea what to get you.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
My present is on its way to Autralia...hope you like it when it gets there - they promised before Christmas!
Kitties
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160
Why ? Why? WHY???
by rune inthis topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.
i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.
and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
Dear Rune,
I decided to reread your original post and give you my opinions - not great knowledge, but here goes. You said you don't want a response that will satisfy you, and I'm sure I won't provide one, but here's what I think:
1) Why do people need to believe in mystical stuff? For instance, no matter how much proof you think you have, no matter how much you believe what you've picked as correct or what you want to be true, there is no way you can know how the universe came to be, what humanity's united purpose is (if any, doubtful), where we are going, or what we are all doing here right now and why... My best guess is it is a hobby some people enjoy, and spiritually-related things are one of the easiest most broad ideas to pick up to bring you into a community of other like-minded want-to-know-something-they-can't kind of people.
We've chatted and you said you're not one to be confused by what you need to do. Maybe that's why it's hard for you to understand why some people need to believe in mystical things. Life is very complicated. We make choices, often ones we regret, and then are lambasted by guilt and confusion and uncertainty as to how to rectify things. Mystical things provide some comfort. For example, belief in things like karma make a person feel as if all their good-intentioned actions will be worth more than a brief satisfaction, that all their hard work will be of some long-term benefit. I wish I could truly believe that. It would be great to think that if I pick up a piece of litter off the street, remember to cross at the walklight or put away my neighbor's garbage cans, that if I do those things and no one knows I did them, that they still matter. On a larger scale, if I sit in the lobby waiting for my friend in surgery to make sure she's okay - and it has no affect on her, she doesn't even know I'm there - and I'm there for hours, exhausted, sick with worry, and then I go home - I wish I could believe that all those hours of worry amounted to something more than me alone in a hospital waiting room. I wish I could be assured that someone up there, something, cared and was smiling down on me and when I died it would all come back as well wishes. Let me clarify a little, though - I don't know that "I" wish those things, I think maybe I did once and some people in general do. It's comforting to feel our efforts matter. But the reality is that they do matter, just perhaps not in a fireworks and explosions sort of way. If I pick up a piece of litter, the earth is cleaner. Cross at the walklight, well, who knows, not sure if that will ever matter. Put away my neighbor's garbage cans, the tired neighbor after a long day of work has a brief smile because he can go inside and put his feet up without worrying about chasing down the garbage cans that have blown down the street. And if I stay by my friend, who is sick and drugged up and completely unaware I'm there, the satisfaction comes from knowing that my love for her was greater than my love for my own physical comforts. Sometimes it's hard to accept that our actions are small and miniscule and won't matter in a hundred years. That perhaps is part of the appeal of mysticism - the belief that we can have a long-term impact on the world. Perhaps it's even arrogance in a way, I'm not sure. I could go on about all the other types of comfort mysticism can bring, but I don't want to write War and Peace on this thread.
2) Why do we think we're somehow special?
I think humans are innately selfish and arrogant. It takes a great deal of effort to grow past that. Think about an infant: all that matters to it are its own needs and desires. With time, we grow and learn to think about the world around us and believe that we are not all that matters. (Well, hopefully we do.) So why do we think we're special? Because it's nice to think that, it makes us feel good, and we like to believe we're great. Not true, sans doute, but that takes us back to the whole self-delusion topic.
3) Why not just accept that life is an unsolvable mystery and move on? Ever stare at those clouds rolling by without trying to explain them? Or that sunset?
Who says that there are people who don't do that? And yet who is to say that questioning and wondering and striving to learn are bad? Curiosity has gotten us a long ways in the world. If no one wondered "what if" then we would still be living in caves and eating berries. I love to look at the sunset and just immerse myself in it...on the beach, a cold wind and the sound of seagulls and the waves crashing and a sunset that is gold and red and violet...not trying to capture it, or think about it, but just allow myself to feel at one with the world and life and know that things will continue long past me. Maybe that's my own personal mysticism? I don't know. But there are other things that I wonder about, that I strive to learn and understand. How does the human mind work? Why does a child with unlimited potential end up killing his fellow students and living in misery? Why do people hurt? Is hurting bad? Can I make a difference in someone's life? Does any of this matter? I can't answer a lot of those questions, and I doubt I ever will. But what is wrong with wondering? You wonder why people believe in mysticism...you are asking questions, wondering too. Perhaps that is our nature, to question. And yes, it is beautiful to be able to let go of that sometimes and experience life with all your senses. But for whatever reason, for evolutionary reasons perhaps, I wonder if I can understand the world around me. And the truth, for me, is that sometimes that wondering leads to insights that enrich my world and make my life more beautiful and fulfilling.
I know I'm going in circles here, and I apologize if what I've said is confusing. I'm only 26 and haven't figured out a heck of a lot. Truth be told, I don't expect to. But if wondering brings me closer to the people I love and to understanding myself, then it is worthwhile for me. I will not settle for just a dish of food in front of me and warm clothes. I need more. I do not need blind faith, but I need to fill the desires for love and comfort and intellectual satisfaction that burn inside of me. If I cannot fill these, at least I need to strive towards that fulfillment - and the striving is a wonderful, exciting journey.
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What's Your Budget For Christmas Shopping???
by minimus ini'm new to this.
i want some ideas.
thank you.......
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
Too much... lol... It started out with a list that totaled about $650, but then we ended up doing some charity stuff (another $300) and then I'd find a gift here or there that I couldn't pass up...and then there were stamps for the cards and postage for gifts out of the area, and boxes and wrapping and bows...lol...oh well!! I think it will be about $1200 by the time we're all done. But I figure it's only our second Christmas, so it's okay this one time to really treat the people we love. We have years to make up for!!
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What do you think some posters look like?
by Bubbamar inits funny that when i imagine what other posters look like - i alway imagine them as attractive, fit, well groomed, with bright, shiny happy faces.
i never see them as obese, nerdy, or with greasy hair and warts and pimples.
their noses are never too big - no body has a "comb-over.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
Brummie, I want you to look like your avitar! Please don't disappoint me!
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NO ONE WILL SAVE YOU EXCEPT YOURSELF,BE IN FEAR OF YOURSELF
by ko38 ini think that pretty much says it all.we can all whine and groan about how the society has wronged us and how they are so self preserving and wrong , evil, false, controling decieving, self righteous,and whatever.those who speak of giving up or god is dead or now i smoke pot and god loves me or now i commit fornication and its okay or those that get drunk and say thats okay.man some of you sound like the apostate definition according to the society.the evil slave.in order not to allign yourself with satan your job i think is simple.stop doing wrong.
quit trying to have sex outside of marriage,smoking pot,lieing cheating and stealing.i dont care who you are you dont want to die.
ive tried it twice and am glad im still here.im no wuss either former power lifter very veril and have 4 children.some of you kill me with your live for today mentality.i have a hard time believing that you chose to leave rather than being disfellowshipped and just feel bitter.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
k038
No words of wisdom, just echoing what everyone else here is saying - there's no point in condemning yourself for having a hard time with this transition. It is painful and long and confusing at times, but the end result is worth it. Please stay around and learn that there are a lot of wonderful people here who truly understand this time in your life. We all need to be here for each other, and I mean it when I say we also need you b/c a) it reminds us of the pain of leaving and keeps us alert for when things in ourselves slip back in and we start to panic (even years after leaving) and think maybe we need to go back and b) one day you will feel stronger, and you will be here to help others who are like you are now. It's all cyclical, give and take and give again, the idea that you don't have the right to need support is something the JWs will feed you. In reality, you don't have to be "perfect" for us b/c we know that who you are, not what you do, already makes you perfect.
Hugs, Kitties
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Why ? Why? WHY???
by rune inthis topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.
i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.
and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
formerout said:
As far as your deeper personality, and I am sure you must admit that you have one; I have had a lot of experience dealing with people who, like you, condemn others while they are in fact more guilty of doing what they are condemning the others of doing. And yes it has been recognized by others enough to in fact be called a "personality disorder
Dear formerout,
I don't know you, we've never really talked, although I have seen a few of your posts. I'm not here to defend or criticize anyone so please don't take this as a personal attack. For me, if someone I had never even talked to in person were to accuse me of having a personality disorder...wow. I find that remarkably unkind.
A personality disorder is a serious issue. Unless you are a psychiatrist who has examined someone intensively, I don't believe you're qualified to make that diagnosis. I say that with all due respect as someone who works in the mental health field and has dealt with many, many mentally-ill individuals. Further, if you truly believe someone has a personality disorder, then respect and care for that person would say that instead of attacking them publically you kindly mention your concern and possible paths to take towards help. I don't believe you truly think Rune has a personality disorder - if you did, I'm sure you wouldn't be so cruel as to publicly attack someone who was suffering. If you are using that merely as a cruel comment, then you are disrespecting all people who do struggle with life-threatening mental illness.
Sincerely,
Kitties
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Marriage question
by starfish422 ini have a question for those who got married in a jw ceremony, or who became jws after being married.
did the elder marrying you, or those studying with you, counsel you as to what forms of sexual intercourse are acceptable within jehovah's loving organization(tm)?
just having a "discussion" of sorts on another board and i'm being challenged by a dutiful jw wife.
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kitties_and_horses_oh_my!
They did do the questions before the wedding about sex etc. Come on now! What couple doesn't do the rubbing thing, making out, and other stuff in the ORG. I know lots that have. Then they give these couples the pre-marital quiz and we all lie our faces off. It's pathetic. It's a problem/system that they themselves have created. I would like to know if there actually are any JW couples that haven't made out before marriage. I mean come on now, let's be honest here!
Honestly - we totally made out, all the time. We'd find all sorts of "public places" that weren't so public... All of our friends did the same thing.