No, they should not be outlawed. I believe in religious freedom, and WT and JW are not the only crazy cult. Many religious groups are messed up and some of them are even violent. It will be hard to single them out in democracy. Plus it will create additional problems as they will go into illegality. Czech President Zeman said that putting JW into illegality would make them even less transparent and top of it it will give them a sense of martyrdom. However, it is a crucial to educate public on danger of the cults and prosecute violaters of the laws like rapists, childer abusers, and child abandonment and neglect, and abuse o the welfare system.
Posts by kaik
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36Do You Believe That Jehovah's Witnesses Should Be Outlawed As They Are In Some Countries?
by minimus inor do you believe they have the right to practice their religion, as they do?.
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14
Dating the writing of a Bible book
by stirred but not shaken inwhile doing the research over the last several years that lead me to conclude that the wt.
society was in error, i was introduced to the possibility that the writings of all scripture was completed by the early to mid 60s ce.
the reasoning that is used in the publications varies.
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kaik
Welcome into the JWN stirred. I had run into this debate over the dating of the Revelation in the past and even here on the board. There are scholars that believe that it was written before 70AD and others who disagree. I read both opinions, but I could not decide which one was the correct one. There are good arguments that the Revelation was written before 70AD. However, there are several issues like idenfication of Rome as the Babylon, which Jews referred, because Babylon in the past destroyed Jerusalem. In the 18th and 19th century, it was proposed that the epistles to the seven churches was written much later during Domitian, while the rest of the book was written between 68-70AD.
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35
We thought it might be Armageddon when...
by cultBgone inwere there ever specific occurrences which you or those around you thought might be the start of "armageddon"?.
i remember 9/11 being such a day as it happened right as the meeting for field service ended.
it was the week of the c.o.
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kaik
I am not sure if I could pinpoint to specific event, but there was an excitement around 1989 when Berlin Wall came down. Many elderly JW prophecised that Armageddon was about to happen. It was 70 years after 1919 when Jesus had choosed his bride, the WT. Jews were leaving for Israel, JW got legalized, the economy was in depression, and my grandparents, the generation born before 1914 were still alive. But deep inside, I was skeptical as I felt that none of the NT testament were fullfilling. The book Revelation that we studied around 1992 confirmed my doubt that WT was joke.
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76
Humans have been on the earth for 6,000 years?
by make yourself inso i just heard this today at the meeting.
honestly i've never really paid much attention too it, but i know it's out of place.
can anyone shed some factual and historical light on this subject?
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kaik
In European history, there is a tendency idealization of the Roman Empire. It was seen as a lost golden age, and this view was utilized by Protestant Reformation to put Catholic based, medieval civilization into bad spot. However, Roman Empire was extremely brutal society that was far more cruel than medieval times. When plague of Antoinne or Cyprian hit Roman Empire, Romans detest the sick ones. It was the Chrisitans that took care of them. Even soldiers were expelled from legie and there was no help for them. Roman Empire did not have hospitals as did Islam or later medieval Europe. Doctors were considered a skilled slaves, and sick people went to temple to pray to the gods to get healed. There was only care for the wealthy and the injured soldiers. Masses were out of lack. While medieval health care was primitive, by 1200 every city in Europe had public hostpital run by religious order. Byzantine Empire had free hospitals since 8th century. Sometimes it is debated that Islam acquired hospital care from Byzantine Empire and Crusaders brought it into the Western world.
Major issue for catastrophic decline of the civilization was sudden drop of population. Roman Empire had 80 millions in 100 AD and only 45 during its collpase. European medieval population shrunk by 30 millions between 1350 and 1450 from peak of 100 millions. If world experience really rapid pandemic with massive population losses; economy, political system, cuture, stability, and public order will collapse. China felt to Mongols only after recurrent Black Death pandemics.
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27
MTS & Gilead: Can we talk about how much of a FAILURE these 2 schools were/are?
by Black Man ini know quite a few from both of these schools who basically crashed and burned once they got into their assignments.
graduates of these schools would be thrown into foreign territorities or remote areas without a good visible means of support and would get emotionally, mentally, financially burned out.
post your experiences or of those you know that went to these pitiful excuses for educational institutions..
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kaik
Missfit, I do not know the reason as it was never explained to us, but I believe it was a control issue. When we lived in isolated country, we used to get WT literature with extensive delays. Some lights we believed was already phased out. I remember hearing and reading when Iron Curtain fell, Brooklyn was not even aware what was the extend of the JW community in communist block and took some time to get it reintegrated with the mother. Some JWs did not like the changes and there was a power struggle which ended with many old timers who were in prison under Hitler or Stalin kicked out from organization.
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76
Humans have been on the earth for 6,000 years?
by make yourself inso i just heard this today at the meeting.
honestly i've never really paid much attention too it, but i know it's out of place.
can anyone shed some factual and historical light on this subject?
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kaik
Apognophos, even people during Roman Empire starved. Average life expectancy in the zenith of the Roman power was about 35 years or so. Population of Rome lived better than rest of the empire due all the conquests. Also Roman Empire experienced period fo peace and prosperity under Pax Romana where core of the empire did nto see a war for several centuries. However, many people were malnourished and from excavated graves of the late antiquity (when funeral pyre were abandonded under Christian faith), shows that Germanic tribes were often much better fed than Romans, were larger, stronger and taller. From 250AD to the collapse of the Roman civilization under Justinian, agricultural production plummetted.
Medieval Europe during its golden peak of the fedualism was actually more economically, socially, and technologically advanced than the Roman Empire. Europe before Black Death had more population than entire Roman Empire. Medieval France had 3x more population than Roman province of Gaul. Britain under Roman had 1 million people and 3 million around 1300. Medieval Europeans had universities producing thousands of graduates every year since 1200s. They had advanced mechanics, optics, chemistry, metallurgy that Romans or Greeks did not have. The feudal civilization was destroyed by plagues, 100 Years War, and religious Schism. When Renaissance arrived, people who lived in the 16th century were not aware of any golden age passing by. Actually people longed for time where prices were lower without runaway inflation. Holy Roman Empire of Germany was in the middle of largest peasant uprising in the world that was not matched until French Revolution. France experienced 4 civil wars in the name of religion, and Renaissance ended with outbreak of 30 Years war.
Anyway, the world in past experienced various peirod of rise and fall, which also was tied to food production and agricultural output. However, the outbreaks of plague like Black Death in 1346, plague of Antonious in 175 or Cyprian 280, or Justinian around 560 set into motion forces which at the end collapsed the civilization. If present world experience significant outbreak of diseases that would whip out 1/3 of all humanity, world would experience dark ages.
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13
5 years inactive and still sometimes I'm haunted.
by ctrwtf ini've lately been thinking about the pernicious nature of the belief by the jw's that they are the one and only true religion.
how this belief allows for an egotistical world view and allows them to shun and denegrate those that do not share their opinions.. please pardon my round about thinking process as i've been mulling this rant for some time.
while my father's side of the family has been entrenched with the jw's for two generations before him, my mother was a new convert.
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kaik
ctrwtf, it gets better as time goes by. You can create a family of your own that is not related by blood with people who care and love you. Disfunctional families are not only domain of JW, but they deliberatelly destroy everything what family stands about. Certain things cannot be repaired as people die or many years are lost and gone. I have lost much of the past 20 years without my siblings, nieces and nephews who barely know I have ever existed. The best I believe you can do for JW left behind is to to have happy successful life. They can wait for big "A" that will never come living in poverty and misery without nothing to look upon this world. They made their choice, so did I and after years I really do not care much anymore. I wonder from time to time how life would be if my JW aunt did not drag my family into the WT, but this cannot be changed at all.
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40
Is it true that the GB is soon planning on ditching the 1914 doctrine?
by yogosans14 inor atleast tweaking it again... apparently there has been rumors of this coming out of bethel.
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kaik
I believe that WT will stick to 1914 until 2034 as it will 120 years and the overlapping generations from 1990's would not make sense. The aging JW who remember 1914 generation core doctrine would be dead within next 20 years and newer, younger generation will still with a new light that will tell tham the Jesus returned /will return in year XXXX. They will say wow, and wil admire the true channel of communication with God. They will not care what WT used to say in fifty, hundred, hundred fifty years ago.
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21
Do you eat foods labeled "low-fat"?
by compound complex ingreetings, health-conscious friends:.
i had a wonderful cup of peet's coffee today at a friend's house, but had only low-fat half-and-half to add.. just isn't the same .
.. what do you eat and drink?.
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kaik
When I was kid in Czechoslovakia, we did not had large producers of dairy products, no corporation making artificial food. Mostly they were made locally and distributed throughout the stores without preservatives. They were all made naturally. Yogurt was sold in glass jar where on the bottom were crushed strawberries filled with tarty yogurt and on top floated foam of heavy cream and whip cream. No Dannone or other dog food. When the borders opened, Germans and Austrians stormed the stores and buyed them at cases. Eventually through the 1990's the factories were sold to Dannone, Univeler, and other and they had disappeared from the market. For that reason, I just cannot get over eating artificial yogurt.
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27
MTS & Gilead: Can we talk about how much of a FAILURE these 2 schools were/are?
by Black Man ini know quite a few from both of these schools who basically crashed and burned once they got into their assignments.
graduates of these schools would be thrown into foreign territorities or remote areas without a good visible means of support and would get emotionally, mentally, financially burned out.
post your experiences or of those you know that went to these pitiful excuses for educational institutions..
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kaik
We had MTS or Gilead family from Australia and UK after the fall of communism in our congregation. They were weird, they did not speak any local language and were clueless over the local customs. A few of us who spoke English were banned to talk to foreigner JW without approval, so we could not really get them to know. I had spent a weekend with one young missionary from UK in Prague and it was really refreshing. Next week BOE was doing visit at our house questioning about everything we talked to and were extremely displeased on my behavior (ie to be friendly to foreigner brother and get him taste native food) . The Australian family lasted only couple months -maybe three- as the woman had a mental breakdown and returned back to Bethel. I remember several other crazies passing by, where snobishly behaving women with 1960's hairdo a'la pompadour in 1990 and their artifical children that never say word on their own. This stopped around 1994.