Posts by Aroq

16

New Light - Good for goose... gander SOL

by Zoos in

when jws accept new light they must, by default, accept that what they were teaching was false.

they allow themselves the luxury of error so long as it is in the pursuit of better understanding.. .

you would think this scenario demands that allowance be made for other religions with false teachings, but alas, no.

Aroq

jam, was that really new light or was Jesus telling them to focus on the point and not make many many many rules to try and harness it?

15

Is Jesus Christ Your Mediator? Watchtower's Position is Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit!

by RottenRiley in

2. p. 363; emphasis added) .

(ibid., p. 362; emphasis added) .. to say jesus is mediator only for the 144,000 is actually to deny the possibility of forgiveness of sins for any others.

; emphasis added) .

Aroq

designs,

The appeal is that you need to do nothing more than believe Jesus died for your sins and was raised. It is a free gift.

Free, no cost to you. So why wouldn't you? No need to turn in hours, no need to knock on doors, no need to shun. Free to be in freedom. The "works" are what you do out of faith in Jesus, not by requirement.

41

Hell or no hell

by never a jw in

about a year ago i had an exchange of emails with an elder of a congregation where all my jw relatives attend.

i asked him all kinds of questions regarding blood, 607, shunning, evolution, higher education.

as anticipated, he either had no answer or provided an evasive one.

Aroq

This matter comes into play if you believe in the Bible and what it says. I do. If you do as well, then do you agree that Jesus was perfect and never lied? I do. The parable mentioned above was from His own mouth. Jesus said this place existed. Now is it all fire and brimstone? Maybe, maybe not. The thing is though, there is a place that is seperate from God, and if you believe in God and the Bible, then "hell" is not somewhere you want to be.

For those who believe that the soul does not survive after death, and your thoughts are placed into a spirit body, please state why you believe this. 1 Samuel 28:8-19 is a great set of scriptures to discuss this.

20

Ananias, and Sapphira

by Quarterback in

i always found this bible acct to be puzzling.

it's found in the book of acts.

it starts by mentioning that in jerusalem a need arosed to care for some christians who lived together as a community.

Aroq

Peter was not the one who was responsible for the death of Annias and Sapphira.

Quarterback, I see where you are comming from and it is difficult. I mean look at Lots wife, all she did was look back and poof same thing. Are these instances written to show the power of God? How we should have a healthy fear of God?

20

Ananias, and Sapphira

by Quarterback in

i always found this bible acct to be puzzling.

it's found in the book of acts.

it starts by mentioning that in jerusalem a need arosed to care for some christians who lived together as a community.

Aroq

Yes we all lie from time to time. I understand the other views here on this story, but I believe the Bible. I believe that it is God's word to us. So my reasoning on this story is this:

These people were living for God and Annias and Sapphira were supposedly part of this but in their heart they were not. The idea was to share with God's people for the development of a church. Greed took them over and they wanted to be more than just a regular person within this "church". They were self pleasing. While we all have this in us at times, how many of us have actually done this in the face of God? Now I am different than most of you, I have never been a JW and never believed their lies. So some of you may think that you have lied to God's org or something of that nature, but what have you kept from God? The org is not God's org!

That is what I get from this story, we do lie to each other, we do hide things from each other, but Annias and Sapphira were lying to God in their hearts, not to Peter or the others. The people would never know (well maybe but probably not) but the group did this for God and Annias and Sapphria knew that it was for God.

Take it or leave it, but that is how I see it.

1

Oregon Ducks Gym Floor

by Aroq in

did one of you paint ttatt on the gym floor?.

i saw this last night while watching the basketball game.

right under the big o it has ttatt.

Aroq

Did one of you paint TTATT on the gym floor?

I saw this last night while watching the Basketball game. Right under the big O it has TTATT. Not sure what it is for or what it means, but it sure looks obvious to me.

21

Fastest TTATT ever, maybe!!!??

by Crazyguy in

Aroq

Agreed.

I found it just crazy that this is given no thought by the JW's I presented it to.

21

Fastest TTATT ever, maybe!!!??

by Crazyguy in

Aroq

Following the thinking on this thread I have also come up with a Biblical logical reason why the 144k is not all that reach Heaven. I have tried to use this but was given the wall of denial and diversion. Here it goes:

In Galatians 4:21-31, Paul is speaking of the two covenants in an allegory between Hagar and Sarah. Those that were of Hagar were born in the ordinary way (Jewish descent) and those born of Sarah were a result of a promise (born by the power of the Spirit).

Starting at verse 24 Paul goes into explaining the meaning of each Sarah and Hagar and to which Jerusalem they belong to. Hagar stood for the present city of Jerusalem and Sarah stood for the Jerusalem from above. The Jerusalem from above was free, just like Sarah in the allegory. This is the New Jerusalem spoken of in Revelation chapter 21 which is from above. In Verse 27 (a quote from Isaiah 54:1) it says that the children of the desolate woman (Sarah) will outnumber those of the woman with the husband (Hagar). It goes on in Isaiah to explain that this group will be much greater in number than the children of "Hagar".

So all of that being said, how can the New Jerusalem (Rev chapter 21)consist of only the 144,000 if Sarah's(Jerusalem from above) descendants will out number Hagar's (Earthly Jerusalem)?

At Gal 4:24 “24 These things may be taken as a symbolic drama; for these women mean two covenants, the one from Mount Si′nai, which bears children for slavery and which is Ha′gar.”
If we look to see the history of this covenant at Mount Si’nai it takes us back to Exodus 19:1-5 and the Ten Commandments at Exodus 20. This took place three months after the Israelites left Egypt (Exodus 19:1) and at that time there were 600,000 men not including the women and children (Exodus 12:31-38). These were men of 20 years of age and older (Exodus 38:26). So rightfully there were close to 1.2 million people (women and children included) in all if not more. This is the covenant represented in Gal 4:25 as I understand it.
After establishing a number (could be more) in the covenant of Hagar, we know that from the scripture in Isaiah 54:1 that the other covenant mentioned in Gal 4 (Sarah) is to outnumber the first. This puts a problem with the 144,000 being the Heavenly Jerusalem/Jerusalem from above/New Jerusalem as there were more than 600,000 in the covenant with Hagar!

6

UN & Recent Catholic development & The future of organized religion

by 4thgen in

there were recent two posts that got me to thinking...the first was on the topic of if rank and file should be excused and the second was from a person whose mother who was in her 80s excited about the un and the catholic child abuse issue, believing the great tribulation was near.. as with the ways of the world, eventually the governments may get tired of all the abuses that are perpetrated by religions against their citizens; and action maybe be taken.

it can quickly become a worldwide human rights issue, as not many citizens actually condone child abuse.. of course if organized religion is turned upside down, a great amount of wealth may return to the governments, which could begin to bring the world economy back into balance.. so, it appears at this point in time there is a possibility that the u.n. may turn on religion eventually.

(like the jw speak?

Aroq

What I could see from the scenario you presented is that the tax deduction and exemption being done away with globally. That alone would hurt many, especially those who hoard $ and property. Would that take away from Churches? Some, but those who gather for no other means other than to worship God and help others, I do not see that EVER going away. Case in point, home Bible studies.

14

Need Advice "How To Shame A Jehovah Witnesses Elderettee and CBOE", What to say to Friends?

by RottenRiley in

.

hi, my mom is dying of cancer and my jw brother and sister refuse to take her to chemotherapy, i thought of providing this information on their business website to debunk the claim they are "a loving family constuction company".

my next door neighbors keep asking me why i am the only one taking her to radiation and chemotherapy, should i tell them my brother and sister are the biggest pieces of shit in san luis obispo county and they hate me because i got rid of two pedophile elders by threatening the watchtower society?.

Aroq

RottenRiley,

My only question to them is "who brought you into this world? Wiped your Butt, fed you and took care of YOU! Isn't it now time for you to try and give back a little something?"

I am really sorry that this is even an issue, and in all reality it shouldn't have anything to do with being a JW or not, it is decency towards your Mother! There are people all over the world and in all walks of life that disrespect their parents in more ways than one. I'm sorry that you have to witness that within your own family.

On a very side note, do not become discouraged if they do something and your Mom praises them for it. I do not know your family situation, but she may do it to acknowledging that they care and helping herself know that they care, kind of giving herself the love from them. Mom's are great at seeing the little things in us and making a big deal about them. Be happy with the time you get to have with your Mom right now, one day we will all lose our parents and will wish we had them back.

I mean nothing more than to encourage you.

Love