Posts by Magnum

44

New video release at district convention. Do Jws live like this?

by solomon in

i just got back from the district convention and watched the new video.

can't remember what it is called but the main family live in a million dollar home and there teenage daughter drives a red convertable sports car.

probably worth about 50000$.

Magnum

InquiryMan: What is this nonsense that JWs live substandard and have mediocre jobs all the time??? Must be more of an American phenomenon... If you go any assembly or KH the cars parked there just resemeble rest of society, so does housing etc.. Witnesses travel, work etc as most people do..

"Nonsense" is a strong word.

One of the following must be true about you:

1) You're twelve years old.

2) You were never a JW.

3) Your comprehension level is extremely substandard.

You have missed the main point. It's not so much about the way JWs actually live, but it's about the message the org has sent in the past versus the one it seems to be sending now.

In the 80's & 90's when I was extremely active, all I ever heard was "pioneer, pioneer, pioneer". There was a Watchtower article that very strongly asked: "Can you justify before Jehovah why you're not pioneering?" There was a district convention drama that depicted a young man in an area where the need was greater who was so broke that he couldn't afford tires for his car, yet he stayed in his assignment anyway. JWs were told to be content with sustenance and covering. They were told the end was imminent. There was a very strong district convention talk at the end of the 80's entitled "Responsible Child-Bearing in the Time of the End"; it promoted not having children because the end was so close. Young people were discouraged from getting education. They were advised to work part-time and enter some form of full-time service. One cannot live as do those depicted in the video if he followed the org's advice - not unless he inherited money, already had it when he became a JW, etc. And that wouldn't have made it completely OK. We were counseled in the 80's and 90's to be careful about setting a bad example for others even if we could afford material things.

I know of JWs right now who have pioneered for years and live in old mobile homes and drive very old station wagons because they did what the org said. These are good people who listened to the org's message. One is a very kind, smart brother who's late sixties. His suits are very dated because he can't afford new ones. How do you think he feels when he sees the people in this video living the way they do? I lived in very primitive settings and was admired for it. If I had lived like the JWs shown in the video, I would have been looked at in a totally different way.

I know what the message was; I was there. I lived it.

It's like the feel of JWdom is changing. It used to be that the sky was falling and that JWs were to sell everything, live simple lives, and spend their time warning others. Now it seems the org is trying to present a new image - one indicating that JWs are more mainstream, more normal. It seems that the sense of urgency is gone - that JWs are settling down for the long haul.

87

How is the org really run? What goes on behind the scenes?

by Magnum in

how is the org really run?

what goes on behind the scenes?.

i just read an older post on this site that was recently bumped (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/6600/1/don-adams-biography) the post mentioned the adams brothers don, karl, & joel and how influential they are/were at headquarters.

Magnum

Listener - very interesting. Never thought about that. So the corp has legal control over all the assets, and the GB might have no legal association with the corp. The GB could actually be like a figurehead monarchy. I, too, would like to know about the charter.

56

How important do you believe education and knowledge is?

by new hope and happiness in

how educated are you?

and how great is your vocabularly ect ....?.

do you think ir right to judge people by how intelligent/ educated they are and how much vocabulary they use???.

Magnum

I agree with Frazzled UBM, Oubliette, nonjwspouse, jgnat, revdip2000, James Brown, Caedes, Oh Gawd, DesirousOfChange, done4good, and any others who said education is important.

OP questions: How educated are you? And how great is your vocabularly ect ....?

I consider myself highly educated, not because of formal education, but because I love to learn and have the capacity to do so. Vocabulary is not as important to me as are logic, comprehension, grammar, mechanics of language, etc. So I’ve never really tried to increase my vocabulary; I’d rather study grammar or linguistics or logic.

Education to me is extremely important. Arrogance and whether a person is likeable are separate issues. Uneducated people and/or people of lower intelligence can be just as arrogant or more so than educated ones.

If a person is going to be arrogant, then he might as well be educated. I couldn’t stand the men in my congregation who were know-it-alls, but knew nothing and those were who tried to display intellect, but were just idiots.

I think that all humans should strive to be educated for the right reasons. I admire and am fascinated with the great intellectuals in history. The Renaissance fascinates me. To me, education – seeking, learning, understanding – is one of the things that should define humans. And I do judge people on the basis of education – not whether they have degrees, but whether they have the desire to learn and they act on that desire.

One of my favorite quotes is this: “An educated man is one who is aware of what he does not know.” That is so true. A lot of people (if not most people) don't know what they don't know. The more one learns, the more he is aware of what all there is that he does not know. The old hillbilly might think he knows it all; he knows everything about the mountain he lives on, but he’s never been off the mountain, so he’s not aware of what all is beyond his tiny realm. Therefore, he’s uneducated.

My mother thinks that ninth grade algebra is advanced math. Some years ago, my mother’s cousin told me, upon finding out that I liked and did well in math, that I should be an accountant. So neither has any clue what math is all about. The more I learn about math, the more I realize how much I don’t know. I am more and more aware of how much there is that I don’t know. I realize there are fields of math like topology and number theory concerning which I’m ignorant, but my mother and her cousin don’t even know such fields exist, so they’re uneducated.

I want to know and understand it all – not to show off, but because I enjoy learning and knowing and I find education and knowledge vastly useful and stimulating. I’d want to be educated if I were the only person on earth – if there were nobody else that could even know that I was educated.

I hear some people say “nobody will ever use that” referring to some type of math or something. I’m thinking how do you know when you don’t even understand it. I have found my knowledge of math, science, language, etc. to be vastly useful, but even if it wasn’t, I still find it just satisfying to have. [Here’s a math problem I encountered the other day that exemplifies the use of some of the math that people say one will never use: I had about a gallon of gas and oil mixed at a 50:1 ratio for my string trimmer. I needed fuel for my chain saw, but the mixture for it should be 40:1. I poured 8 ounces of the 50:1 mix in a cup and needed to know how much oil to add to make it 40:1. That dang math is useful.]

To me, education doesn’t have to be acquired in a formal setting. I’ve known a number of people who graduated from college, but couldn’t half a recipe (didn’t know what half of a third was) or who had no clue what the difference between an adverb and adjective was. One can teach himself, so there’s no excuse to me for one’s not being educated (unless he legitimately just doesn’t have the brain power).

I’m the type that wants to know the “why” of everything. For example, I want to learn to weld. But I don’t want to just have somebody show me how. I want to know what’s going on at the molecular level. I want to know metallury. I want to know microscopically what’s going on when metals are annealed and tempered and hardened. Knowledge is power. It opens up doors. It can save lives.

So, again, I think education is vastly important.

20

1975 Marketing

by lambsbottom in

can anyone tell me exactly how the jws advertised the '75 being the end of the world?

how were they soooo effective?

i mean, other cults are effective also, but damn!

Magnum

1975 was a huge deal among JWs where I lived. My non-JW dad was told a few years before '75 that I'd never drive or graduate high school. The JWs I knew believed it was all going to over in '75.

27

loesch likes C of C

by bigmac in

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Magnum

Apognophos - Oh, OK.

20

1975 Marketing

by lambsbottom in

can anyone tell me exactly how the jws advertised the '75 being the end of the world?

how were they soooo effective?

i mean, other cults are effective also, but damn!

Magnum

I don't know how outsiders were reeled in, but the insiders fell for it because back then, the org seemed more scholarly. Fred Franz (who I think was responsible for the 1975 stuff) was viewed as a brilliant oracle. The hype got started and to JWs, since it was coming from Jah's organization, it must be true.

Were there a lot of outsiders reeled in in the years preceding 1975? Was 1975 hyped to outsiders or was the hype only on the inside?

87

How is the org really run? What goes on behind the scenes?

by Magnum in

how is the org really run?

what goes on behind the scenes?.

i just read an older post on this site that was recently bumped (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/6600/1/don-adams-biography) the post mentioned the adams brothers don, karl, & joel and how influential they are/were at headquarters.

Magnum

factfinder: Now it seems the gb alone choose new members... if the 7 gb members were to die at the same time, then what happens?

Interesting question.

87

How is the org really run? What goes on behind the scenes?

by Magnum in

how is the org really run?

what goes on behind the scenes?.

i just read an older post on this site that was recently bumped (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/6600/1/don-adams-biography) the post mentioned the adams brothers don, karl, & joel and how influential they are/were at headquarters.

Magnum

Syme: Guys, how can you really believe that people from the Board of Directors or anyone else can be higher that the GB?

So you believe unquestioningly that the GB has all the power? And why do you believe that - because the org says so? Do you really trust the org to tell us exactly what the situation is? Do you think the org would tell us otherwise? Do you think the org is telling us the real reason(s) behind all the recent changes - branch closures, selloffs, DO layoffs, convention changes, donation changes, etc.? Do you really?

You seem to think it's odd that some would consider it possible that the GB is not all powerful. I don't think it's a far-fetched question at all.

Your post basically boils down to this: the GB has all the power. I accept that as a guess on your part - a guess that might be right. Do you have any evidence of that? Sure, that's what the org says, but I want to know the truth; I don't trust the org.

27

loesch likes C of C

by bigmac in

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Magnum

jgnat - I used the past tense because I was asking whether Losch was (in the past) kind and reasonable to fulano or back when fulano knew him or knew of him. He might have changed since then.

27

loesch likes C of C

by bigmac in

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Magnum

Ray, who wasn't that mister right and kind at all

fulano - Please provide more info. I'm very interested in this. Are you saying that Ray Franz was not right and not kind? Please give more detail. I would like to know the truth. Was Losch really kind & reasonable?