besides a cult, everyone knows the watchtower is a business disguised as a religion.
from a business viewpoint, i would certainly hate or lobby against those who dislike my product and warn other people of my product.. i made a calculation based on information from jwfacts, and the results are just astounding!.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.
At a recent CO visit this year, From the stage the CO said, "Friends we must protect our young ones from Satan's system.. We are losing 7 out of 10 of our Young ones to the world!"
Thats 70% of kids raised in the Org leaving at some point.. As far as I know, that is the PRIMARY source of new Baptisms.
I would be shocked if they were not already experiencing YOU decreases in Publishers.
I would be more shocked, if they ever reported a loss.
any thoughts?.
maybe a good qfr article.. rub a dub.
Lol I was j/k logos.
hi everyone,.
i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.
Daniel 11:19 - "He said, “Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end."
This King couod for sure be related to Hitler and the Holocaust
23 And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise. 24 His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints. 25 By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand. 26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”
hi everyone,.
i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.
Annomaly - Thanos for the link, it looks very sound and I'll review it.
Regarding Antiochus IV, It does make sense that these verses relate to Antiochus IV.
There are some factors that point to a dual fulfillment though.
1. the chapter concludes with the "time of the end" (verse 40) - leading up to the resurrection of the saints.
2. Daniel 10:14 - " I have come to make you understand what will befall your people in the final part of the days, because it is a vision yet for the days to come. Based on this we see that the following prophecies are all related to the Jews, not the Whole Earth.
Im FULLY aware that anyone can find ANYTHING they want in the scriptures to confirm their opinion : )
All but a few of the verses between 21-45 Can Apply directly to Hitlers Nazi Germany. I won't bore you with all of the research that that I have done so far, but 21 has a pretty good start. let me know if you're interestes in seeing any of the rest.. I really welcome points that disprove this possibility, so I don't spend too much time on it.
Daniel 11:21 - In his place shall arise a contemptible person to whom royal majesty has not been given . He shall come in without warning and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
i was just thinking about how the watchtower often compares the organization's position to that of moses.
challenging moses, in their retelling of the biblical account, equated challenging god's authority, as korah, dathan, and abiram did, to their own peril.
the conclusion we are to gain from this is not to challenge, question, or disagree with the watchtower society's teachings even in our private thoughts.
Aaron & Moses were God's chosen representatives. When Moses was approached by Jehovah, Moses knew that the people would not accept him based on His word alone, so he asked Jehovah for a sign. His words are recorded in Exodus 4:1 "But suppose they do not believe me and do not listen to my voice". apparently Jehovah agreed that this was a Reasonable request, so he responded in Verse 5 "This is so that they may believe that Jehovah the God of their forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,has appeared to you." Jehovah did not stop there, he gave a second sign verse 8 "“If they will not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, then they will certainly heed the next sign" for Emphasis Jehovah gave still a Third Sign! In Verse 9 we see "Still, even if they will not believe these two signs and refuse to listen to your voice"
From this Passage, it is Clear that Jehovah does not become indignant when his Servants ask for a sign. If the servant humbly asks he readily provides it. (Compare Judges 6:17,Judges 6:36-40 Gideon asked for Three Signs,on 2 different occasions! See Also 2 Kings 20:8-11 Jehovah altered the shadows as a sign for Hezekiah!)
The Gospel accounts are filled with Signs proving that they were Jehovah's chosen representatives (2 Corinthians 12:12, Acts 8:13, Acts 2:22, Acts 14:3, Mark 16:16-17)
Jehovah even felt it beneficial to Announce his Own Son, as someone that we can follow - Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him."
Jehovah has given us many warnings,as well.. (1 Thessalonians 5:21,1 John 4:1,Galatians 1:8,Galatians 1:10,Jeremiah 23:16,Jeremiah 23:33,Proverbs 30:12,2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
Jesus gave us warnings..(Matthew 24:24,Mark 13:22) Jehovah even gives us useful guidelines to follow. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 , Jeremiah 23:6,7 , Matthew 7:15)
Regarding Aaron - As high priest, Aaron was responsible for directing all features of worship at the tabernacle and supervising the work of the thousands of Levites engaged in its service.
His anointing, however, sanctified him to perform not only sacrificial duties for the nation but other duties as well. He was responsible to teach the nation the Word of God. Aaron was responsible to Teach the Nation the word of God, he was also responsible in the Directing the work relating to their Worship.
Now Look at two commands in the Bible - Hebrews 13:17 - "17 Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you+ and be submissive,..."
Exodus 20:23 - "23 You must not make gods of silver alongside me, and you must not make gods of gold for yourselves." Both of these are commands from Jehovah.. so when an appointed servant of Jehovah, whom is taking the lead among you says.. “Take the gold earrings from the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters and bring them to me.” (Exodus 32:2) - What is a Christian to do?
Fortunately Jehovah makes a way out through his word.
1. He blesses us with a Heart that can discern right from wrong. Hebrews 5:14
2. Jeremiah 17:5 -This is what Jehovah says: “Cursed is the man* who puts his trust in mere humans,+ Who relies on human power,*+ And whose heart turns away from Jehovah. (Psalms 118:8 / Isaiah 2:22 )
3. He warns us as well - Romans 2:6 And he will pay back to each one according to his works. / Matthew 16:27 / Ecclesiastes 3:17
We are accountable for our own actions, and following another or being deceived is never an excuse, as is clearly seen at Genesis 3:12 - 13 "12 The man said: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate.” 13 Jehovah God then said to the woman: “What is this you have done?” The woman replied: “The serpent deceived me, so I ate"
any thoughts?.
maybe a good qfr article.. rub a dub.
Oubliette - Thank you for your well thought out response.
Its funny because I saw that same scripture in one of Christendoms magazines.. I will have to assume that you and pro logos are trying to form some sort of sect.
any thoughts?.
maybe a good qfr article.. rub a dub.
Pro logos - I agree with some of your reply, but I have to question your motives..
Have you arrived at this information on your own, or have you been reading worldly books? If you have arrived at the OPINION on your own I applaud you for digging into the scriptures.
ill have to caution you to.. Be careful with your vile apostate words, if you do not wish to have your eyes eaten by Blue Jays.
any thoughts?.
maybe a good qfr article.. rub a dub.
RuAdub - Since you are a disfellowshipped individual, I will politely acknowledge your comment to me, however i cannot say hi to you. Hopefully you will come back to the organization soon.
any thoughts?.
maybe a good qfr article.. rub a dub.
I'll answer your question using the Bible, as I don't think it would be appropriate to answer a sincere question such as yours, using personal speculation.
Lets first look at Leviticus 25:8 - “You shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall give you forty-nine years." to get an idea of the meaning of seven years see Daniel 9:24 - "“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place."
So far it is clearly established that 49 years are discussed in these 2 scriptures. You will notice in the B part of 9:24 that this is Indeed related to the transgression you are contemplating. however since you will be in Heaven, we need to use another scripture to fully understand the punishment. well first jump back to Leviticus where we see 7x7 = 49 so we are dealing with 49 Years and also seventy weeks. (A side note.. The 49 years is for someone that is not anointed but still partakes , however the 70 weeks are added if that person is Disfellowshipped at the time.) We know to look at a year as 1,000 years (when in Heaven)
2 Peter 3:8 - "But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
Now we have 49 Years = 49,000 Heavenly Years + 70 Years = 490 Years or 490,000 Heavenly Years - that is 539,000 years.
We have only 2 more steps to consider.
539,000 is significant from a Gematria Stand Point.
We will not focus on the 000 and only the 539 - this Brings us to. Luke 5:39 - "And no one after drinking old wine desires new, for he says, ‘The old is good.’
This is with certainty pointing to a Reinstatement Meeting that will be held after at least 6 months or 504,000 years.. At this time you will need to write a scroll addressed to one of he members of the Current Governing body and show that you are repentant. Essentially by saying that "the old is good" you are confessing that you understand the error of your ways and you understand that you were a member of the great crowd and not the 144.000. If you show a sincere attitude you have the chance of being reinstated (Resurrected) to an earthly paradise.
One very important word of caution though.. This is an unforgivable sin in one sense.. We can see that in Numbers 6:3 - he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.
If you do not wish to Drink Vinegar with the Wine removed, I'd admonish you to reconsider.
Wait on the Governing body my friend.
With Christian Love,
OT
the speaker at the memorial tonight stated straight up that the 144,000 is a literal number as we will stop celebrating the memorial when jesus 'arrives' and takes the few remnant with him.
how can the society change the 144,000 to figurative without blowing themselves out of the water?.
Greendawn - Could the " male and virginal undefiled by women." be relating to Gentiles that have not been Defiled by the Woman Babylon the Great, The Great Harlot?
