Posts by mizpah

21

Street witnessing...

by yxl1 in

is it back in vogue with the dubs?

i took my wife to see bombay dreams at the theatre last weekend.

(recommended) after the show and while wandering around leicester sq, i noticed a guy selling magazines.

One of the reason that "street witnessing" and other alternatives to door to door work are being tried is because JWs are finding it more difficult to find people at home and more communities are restricted to any form of solicitation, religious or otherwise. This presents a problem of contacting people by the old method of door to door. So, it seems the Watchtower is reviving old methods and suggesting new ones. (One that has been tried in some areas is to approach people at shopping malls or other public areas.)

Some have wondered why the Watchtower has not extensively used TV and Radio ads to reach more people. It has been tried in a very limited way. But these ads cost money. And the Watchtower Society is very sensitive about spending any of their vast financial resources. It's easier and less expensive to have the rank and file use their resources instead.

However, the Watchtower Society may have to create new methods especially in the progressive countries. Most of the increases in recent years are in those "third world" catagory. And the people in those countries are in no position to donate their contributions to the Watchtower organization. They are more concerned with the necessities of life: food, shelter and clothing.

11

Love-Trademark of the christians?

by vesse in

all of you who have a little bit more than usual objective view of the religions.what have you noticed while observing the way how the parishioners of different churchers are showing love toward their fellowbelievers .is there any difference compared to jt's.i know that wts is boasting that the true and genuine love exists only among themselves.i don' t know exactly what a hell this means?one argument i have been told is that the door-to door preaching is one evidence of christian love ( far - fethed , i think ).

what about at the congregational level?.

any feedback?

mizpah

I think that what bothers many of us is that the love demonstrated by most JWs is conditional. It is based upon loyalty to the Watchtower organization. Any person who has left the organization quickly discovers that this "love" evaporates very quickly. Theocratic love turns to hatred.

True love that is described in the Bible is unconditional. I agree that many JWs are bothered by the rules of the Watchtower especially concerning disfellowshipping. Their natural emotions have to be suppressed. But this is the point where they have to make a personal decision. Most choose to obey the organization and follow the rules. This crushes out any normal feelings one may have even toward close family members and friends.

In this respect, Jehovah's Witnesses are to be pitied. Not only do they miss out on a loving relationship with their relatives, but they also fail to appreciate true Christian love that is described in the Bible: "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight with evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

5

are JW's beliefs truly unique?

by gcc2k in

i'm sure someone has researched this, and if so perhaps you would save me some time.. a common jw reply when he/she is presented with problems that would seem to indicate that this cannot be "god's organization" is for him/her to say "but where else will i go?

who else has the truth?".

so, given a list of beliefs that are cornerstones of the "truth", what other religions share them?

mizpah

There are a number of groups that hold the same beliefs in basic doctrines as Jehovah's Witnesses. (Trinity, Soul, Hell, etc.) Some of them like the Dawn Bible Students or the Layman's Home Missionary Society once had association with the Watchtower Society but broke away over disputes. They would now disagree with those teachings where the Watchtower makes scirptural application to itself. (Example: "faithful and wise servant")

The Worldwide Church of God is a good example of what can happen to a church under new leadership. Many of Armstrong's teachings were similar to that of the Watchtower. But when Armstrong died, the new leadership threw out most of these and went back to a more orthodox interpretation of scripture. This, of course, rent their organization apart. Now there are a number of small groups that still adhere to Armstrong's beliefs.

The Watchtower has experienced the same during its history. When Rutherford wrested the organization away from Russell's appointed men, the whole movement was in disarray. Even earlier, disputes caused some to disagree with Russell. (New Covenanters) They established their own churches some of which continue to this day.

8

Jehovah's Witnesses withou Hope?

by admiral_palsey in

-under the old covenant animal blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins.

heb 9:19,20 for when every commandment of the law had been declared by moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, "this is the blood of the covenant which god commanded you.

heb 13:11 for the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp.

mizpah

Sorry, Noumenon...but Jesus' words in the three gospels are plain and simple that Jesus would return in the clouds and be visible by all. And Jesus gives warning not to believe those who tell you he has returned in a secret presence ("inner rooms"). What is difficult to understand?

It is only by means of convoluted reasoning resulting from preconceived ideas to explain away a disappointment that the Watchtower came up with an explanation for "parousia." Russell's attempt to explain away his failed predictions are similar to the Seventh-day Adventists who proclaimed that Christ was "tarrying" in the heavens when he did not return according to their expectations. Why is it that religious leaders and followers can not be humble and admit their mistakes?

The rule of good Bible research is to consider the literal meaning of Scripture first before applying a symbolic or allegorical application. Some of the ludicrous lengths that the Watchtower goes to tests even the crediblity of Jehovah's Witnesses. (Example: Events in Revelation applied to JW conventions and proclamations!) But as long as individuals are willing to give up their own powers of reason to follow an organization of men, the Watchtower Society will prosper.

10

Spiritism

by Beans in

.

more light from the source!.

http://www.quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/spiritism.htm.

mizpah

The last I remember was the Watchtower painted with a very wide brush and labelled all religions as part of Satan's demonic empire, Babylon the Great. That is, of course, with the exception of itself.

It doesn't matter that in its early history, the founder of the Watchtower had a fixation on the great Pyramid of Egypt and its measurements. If this had been another religion, I wonder what the Watchtower would say with regard to these origins? Can't you just imagine: "From its inception this religious movement was steeped in demonic prophecies. The great pyramid of Egypt was a product of Satan's first world power. To use its calculations as a basis of one's faith demonstrates that this religion had abandoned the sacred scriptures and substitued demonology as its holy writ..." etc. etc. etc.

The Watchtower should learn the lesson that Jesus taught: "Let him without sin cast the first stone." But then, the Watchtower doubts the authenticity of this scripture as I recall.

9

UK Bethel seminar with Secular Authorities re. child abuse.

by caspian in

can any one report if any other branch offices have held seminars with the secualr authorities like london has.. if you were not aware, london bethel held a second seminar last month (2 in 9 months although i can't seem to find the link to my post on the first seminar) with the nspcc, police chiefs, crown court judges and social workers all as a result of the panorama programme, basically asking the question .

what can the society do to protect children within the organization.. the society are putting into place all of the suggestions and advice they were given.. the new set of guidelines well be on the new circuit overseers outlines to bodies of elders for the sept 2003 to feb 2004 outlines.. my question is.

is there any other branches that are meeting with secular authorities and making changes to their policies.?

mizpah

To LW:

The Watchtower Society has always confused "unity" with conformity. Christians are unified in their faith in Jesus Christ but can hold different views about doctrine. But Jehovah's Witnesses are forced to conform to the teachings of the Watchtower Society by threat of excommunication. The organization wants robots, not people who can think for themselves.

In the past, some who had studied the Bible closely that held certain views that were later adopted by the Watchtower Society. But they were censored at the time for "running ahead of the organization." It didn't matter that the subject was "scriptural." All that mattered was that one had to wait until the teaching become official doctrine.

Worldly people are encouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses to question their religious beliefs. But for a Jehovah's Witness to do the same means one could be disfellowshipped. Such a double standard!

35

Having children ??? did the Watchtower have an affect on your decisions ???

by run dont walk in

i remember growing up and thinking that there was no way i would have kids ......... why ???

....... because i did not want to raise them the way i was raised, in the borg.

i went through hell, why put a defenceless child through that.

mizpah

For most young couples in the organization, youth and nature was and is stronger than some of the prevalent views usually held by older married couples. ( Most of them already had their families.) Of course, it would be to the Society's advantage to have young people devote their lives to the Watchtower instead of being "burdened" with a normal life.

But for a few, this decision to forego marriage and children must have been a bitter pill later in life as the Watchtower predictions were not fulfilled and the ravages of age began to take its toll.

People have always been expendable in the Watchtower Society. I remember one old faithful pioneer sister who had a stroke. She was put into a nursing home and eventually abandoned by the majority of her "brothers and sisters" in "the Truth." Once her usefulness was over, so was the "love" of the congregation. I'm sure this has been repeated many times over the years.

35

Having children ??? did the Watchtower have an affect on your decisions ???

by run dont walk in

i remember growing up and thinking that there was no way i would have kids ......... why ???

....... because i did not want to raise them the way i was raised, in the borg.

i went through hell, why put a defenceless child through that.

mizpah

The Watchtower has long been an advocate of not having children before Armageddon. It goes way back to the Children book of Rutherford. I think the characters in the story were Eunice and John. They were young and contemplating marriage. By the end of the book, both decided to wait to have their family in the "new world." Eunice and John could have been literary great grandparents by now!

When I became a Jehovah's Witness in the 1950s, a sister said to me that I would be able to raise my children in the "new world." Fortunately, I didn't wait. Now, I am a grandfather of 11 grandchildren. And a couple of them are old enough to marry and have children themselves.

But I did know of couples who decided they would not have children before Armageddon. I'm sure that a number of these regretted this choice in their old age. In fact, I think that is one of the things that Ray Franz mentioned in his book. This is just another example of the abnormal life in the Watchtower Society.

18

PEACE & SECURITY!! New teaching?

by unique1 in

i was talking with my jw friend yesterday who was saying she believes armageddon is near.

i said the end can't be too near because the nations haven't declared peace and security yet.

to which she replied, "oh, they explained that at the assembly.

mizpah

I heard this same thing being talked about in 1952 and every year thereafter. Jehovah's Witnesses would always be excited if a President mentioned "peace and security" in our time. And, believe me, nearly every President did use the phrase during his administration.

I can also remember how JWs would suggest that every international assembly "would probably be the last." In 1953 nearly all JWs noted that 1954 would mark 40 years from 1914. This had to be "the last assembly" before Armageddon. In 1958, the same JWs observed that it would be 40 years from 1918. They were just as convinced that it would be the last assembly. And on and on it went....

When the Society suggested, then later denied, that 1975 would complete the 6000 years mankind and would probably coincide with Armageddon, everyone was convinced that was the date for "the end." What the Society failed mention later was that Circuit and District Overseers were really pushing this date at assemblies. I remember one that told the brothers that we were like Joshua marching around Jericho for the 10th time. Another said that we no longer counted the years remaining time in years or months but that we should start to calculate it in days and hours.

Isn't it odd how the Society and its leaders as well as JWs in general now have "collective amnesia" about these times. But anyone who lived through them remembers vividly the "tempo of the times" and marching in line of all who were in the Watchtower Society.

15

50 years from now ! What will the Watchtower say about the 1990's 2000's ?

by run dont walk in

if russell , rutherford and even knorr's work is considered misinterpeted, or overzealous, or they didn't have a complete understanding of the scriptures (even though they were of the annoited class).

can or will the same be said 50 years from now about today's publications.. this really intrigues me, i love reading the history of the watchtower and looking back at some of the beliefs and predictions.

i really appreciate the 1975 stuff more today then ever.

mizpah

Nothing ever remains the same. Just think of the great changes that occurred within the Watchtower Society in the last 120 years. But there have been significant outside changes in our own generation that may influence this generation of JWs.

James Penton (Apocalypse Delayed) predicts that gradual changes will have to come in the organization if it is to survive. He suggest the abundance of information that is now available such as the Internet and instant media coverage makes it nearly impossible for even Jehovah's Witnesses to ignore. He foresees Jehovah's Witnesses possibly becoming "just another denomination among denominations."

On the other hand, Ray Franz sees no great changes in the leadership role of the organization any time soon. Most of those appointed to the G.B. are diehard JWs who are eager to please their seniors. They will try to maintain a "status quo."

So the internal forces will try to keep things the same. But the external forces will probably exert enough pressure to make changes within. Changes are inevitable. But it may take time.