Posts by mizpah

10

DF'ed questions, please help.....

by butalbee in

:) i really haven't been around much for months now, er, be preoccupied, i guess.

anyone miss me?

i do i have a q for you, and no it doesn't directly have to do with sex.

mizpah

A person who is disfellowshipped from the organization is dealing with two burdens. First, there is the "sin" that has been committed. One may realize that he has sinned against God's moral principles as laid out in the Bible and may feel a tremendous guilt over this.

Then, there are the reprecussions that happen because one is disfellowshipped from the organization. The stigma of being labelled and the pain of being shunned are difficult loads to carry for any person. The lack of love and mercy in the congregations make it almost intolerable for many.

What is important for a person to discern is that the two are not mutally compatable. One who has sinned against God can be forgiven by God through sincere repentence and evidence of not repeating the error. When God forgives there is not probational time or conditions. His forgiveness is immediate and complete. In contrast, the Watchtower Society and its members seem to relish in the pain and suffering of the sinner. Even after one is reinstated, the person has to live with the knowledge that his sin has been talked about by those in his congregation as well as those in other congregations. This shame is now part of his/her personna.

In the balance one can easily see that it is much better to try to please God than to please the members in the Watchtower organization. The "love" that Jehovah's Witnesses boast about is a myth. Genuine affection and love is not based upon loyalty to an earthly organization. Rather, it is the kind of love that Jesus showed when he spoke of the shepherd who left his flock to seek out his lost sheep.

9

UK Bethel seminar with Secular Authorities re. child abuse.

by caspian in

can any one report if any other branch offices have held seminars with the secualr authorities like london has.. if you were not aware, london bethel held a second seminar last month (2 in 9 months although i can't seem to find the link to my post on the first seminar) with the nspcc, police chiefs, crown court judges and social workers all as a result of the panorama programme, basically asking the question .

what can the society do to protect children within the organization.. the society are putting into place all of the suggestions and advice they were given.. the new set of guidelines well be on the new circuit overseers outlines to bodies of elders for the sept 2003 to feb 2004 outlines.. my question is.

is there any other branches that are meeting with secular authorities and making changes to their policies.?

mizpah

There have been times when the branches have taken measures that were later censored by the headquarters in Brooklyn. Could it be possible that this is the case with the London Branch? Or are the leaders using the London Branch as a "feeler" for what may become policy in the U.S. and other countries? It is really difficult to determine. The secrecy of the organization only lends itself to speculation.

When discussing the Watchtower organization, one becomes very cynical because of its past history. This whole scandal of the sexual abuse of children is hitting the organization and its members very hard. Only one thing is apparent. The leaders have done their utmost to hide the problem and to protect the assets of the Watchtower Society. It has not offered any real assistance to the victims of this abuse. In fact, quite to the contrary, it has encouraged the disfellowshipping of the victims and their familes who have exposed this problem and, in some cases, has supported the perpetrators. Until this changes, one can doubt the sincerity of the entire organization.

10

Spiritism

by Beans in

.

more light from the source!.

http://www.quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/spiritism.htm.

mizpah

Does anyone remember what happened in the congregations when the Watchtower came out with a series of articles on "spiritism" some years ago? In our congregation everyone started to claim that the "demons" were the cause of many of their personal problems. So, upon the suggestion of the Watchtower that demons could enter a home through a gift given or a item bought, many began to go through their homes and throw out those things that were suspicous. Many items were burned to destroy the "demon influence."

In one case, a pioneer sister asked another sister to sew a coat that she had been given. When the sister was sewing, she claimed that the needle would not penetrate the coat or would fly out of her hands. Of course, it could only be a demon!

Soon others in the congregations were blaming everything on the demons. (Shades of Salem!) In time, the Watchtower recommended caution. And eventually things became normal again.

It seems that Jehovah's Witnesses often over reacted to many of the articles in the Watchtower and Awake. Does anyone recall the aluminum pot scare or Coca Cola warning? How about the articles on sexual practices? But the reaction to the articles on Demonism was one of the strangest of all!

12

Lu'au anyone

by shotgun in

one of many ways to experience a slice of island culture, the lu'au (loo-ow) is a hawaiian tradition: a feast to celebrate accomplishments, honor important people and commemorate great events.

in old hawai'i it was a time to pay homage to ancestral gods with song, dance and offerings of food, a grand celebration that sometimes lasted for days.. .

lu'au description taken from hawaii.com.

mizpah

Years ago when I was still a single JW, I wrote into the Society to question why they allowed wedding anniversaries but not birthday celebrations. I noted in the that in French the term for birthday was "anniversaire de naisance" (anniversary of birth). I received a lengthy reply about how the Bible mentions only two birthdays, both being detrimental to God's servants. It concluded that celebrating wedding anniversaries would be up to the "consciences" of individuals.

Over the years discussions came up about other "pagan practices" such as use of the wedding ring, etc. It seems that the Watchtower was quite arbitrary how one could or could not celebrate various customs and holidays. However, what became more noticable was the way that Jehovah's Witnesses got around the restrictions. Many would exchange gifts around Christmas time but not on the 25th of December. Others would celebrate a "special day" around the time of one's birthday but would not be on the exact date. Some would have large turkey dinners but not on the Thursday of Thanksgiving. It was always rather amusing to see the rationale for such occasions.

I'm convinced now that the Watchtower Society ruled against many of these celebrations because it wanted total control over its members. These occasions allowed for Jehovah's Witnesses to have normal family relationships with others who were not members of the Watchtower Society. This was perceived as a danger to the authority of the leadership. Why didn't the Society leave all decisions up to the "consciences" of each member? Undoubtedly, it was because it knew that the majority of its members would continue to have close association with their families.

9

Hope I'm in the right place...

by zeena1998 in

hi all.. as some of you know, i'm not a jw, nor have i ever been.

i have a friend who is one and have entertained the idea of becoming part of the collective.

that all ended after doing some serious research into the organization.

mizpah

In addition to the "recommendation" letters sent with the Publisher's Record File, sometimes elders would send "poison pen" letters to the elders in the new congregation. I personally know of a case where a couple went to another state to "serve where the need was great." The old presiding overseer sent a letter recommending that the brother not be used as an elder because of a grudge he had against him. When this couple moved again to a new area, this same elder sent another letter to the body of elders in this new congregation recommending the same. However, in this case, the elders had known the brother for a number of years and said that no one was going to tell them who to recommend or not.This brother was then appointed as an elder.

It was this type of unchristian conduct along with questions we had about the teachings of the Watchtower Society that made me and my wife finally leave the organization after many years of association. Upon leaving, we discovered how superficial the "love" of Jehovah's Witnesses really is. Shunned by friends and family, we came to realize loyalty to an organization of men means more to Jehovah's Witnesses than the love of God and Christ. It was a difficult lesson....but one that is well taught.

3

I Couldn't Take Heaven Away...

by OHappyDay in

i have a real problem when i meet people who are sure they are going to heaven.

the problem being that i have no authority to talk them out of it.

according to the new testament, only "the spirit" can determine who goes to heaven, not me nor any organization of men.. we say that only 144,000 go to heaven, but the bible does not say that.

mizpah

One has to understand the evolution of the teaching of the Watchtower Society to appreciate its current belief that only 144,000 are going to heaven. Russell taught that the "great multitude" described in Revelation was also a secondary heavenly group. In his day, all believers were going to heaven. Of course, Russell belived in the imminent coming of God's Kingdom probably by 1914 and did not foresee the large increase of members in the organization. Many of the old Watchtowers dealt with the closing of the calling of the annointed and spent a lot of time discussing dates when the closing occurred.

Rutherford revamped most of Russell's teachings including that of the "great multitude." He came up with the doctrine that the "great crowd" was an earthly group. The new converts were told that they belonged to this group. Thus, he tried to end the questions and controversies that resulted when all felt they had a heavenly reward.

In more recent times, many younger members began to feel that they were of "the annointed" and had a "heavenly hope." This put the Watchtower Society in an embarrassing position since it taught that only when an annointed member became unfaithful would God select another one. Could it be possible that so many of the old annointed were becoming unfaithful? So the Watchtower leadership has tried to downplay this awkward situation. But the reported numbers of "the annointed" has remained rather steady over the past few years.

It has always been difficult to understand how the Watchtower can hold to the literalness of the number of 144,000 when it insist that its description (virgins, tribes of Israel) is symbolic. And it is to be noted that the "great multitude" is seen "before the throne of God and in front of the lamb"...and serves him "day and night in his temple."

9

UK Bethel seminar with Secular Authorities re. child abuse.

by caspian in

can any one report if any other branch offices have held seminars with the secualr authorities like london has.. if you were not aware, london bethel held a second seminar last month (2 in 9 months although i can't seem to find the link to my post on the first seminar) with the nspcc, police chiefs, crown court judges and social workers all as a result of the panorama programme, basically asking the question .

what can the society do to protect children within the organization.. the society are putting into place all of the suggestions and advice they were given.. the new set of guidelines well be on the new circuit overseers outlines to bodies of elders for the sept 2003 to feb 2004 outlines.. my question is.

is there any other branches that are meeting with secular authorities and making changes to their policies.?

mizpah

Thanks for the information about the London Bethel's seminars with secular authorities to address this problem of sexual abuse within the organization. I am surprised, though, that the Watchtower organization would seek outside help for an internal problem. The Society has always held "worldly authority" in suspicion unless it really serves its own purpose. It almost makes one wonder the motivation of the leadership. Is it an effort to build "evidence" of its own good faith to present to the courts for favorable decisions?

In the past, the Watchtower Society has always boasted that it is directed by Jehovah's holy spirit. Why now would it turn to "secular authorities" to solve these problems? There has to be a reason that isn't immediately apparent at face value.

18

Governing Body--Unanimous or Two-Thirds Majority?

by blondie in

in the bible in discussing the debacle about circumcision in the early christian community, the wts states about what they consider the gb:

w98 11/1 p. 5 how to solve problems peacefully.

after a scriptural discussion, the apostles and jerusalem elders came "to a unanimous accord" not to burden uncircumcised believers unnecessarily but to admonish them "to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.

mizpah

Today, the Governing Body can make any arbitrary decision it wants. It doesn't need the approval of Scriptures to change policy or doctrine. The advantage of claiming "new light" allows it to make a 180 degree turn without being answerable to anyone.

But for the sake of unity, it probably came up with this new ruling of 2/3rds approval so that issues would not come to a standstill. Undoubtedly, it is based on practical considerations rather than Scriptrual ones. Having experienced a GB member who, at times, opposed the majority opinion (Ray Franz) it may have considered the necessity of this arrangement.

This 2/3rds policy reflects more upon the reality of the organization than one realizes. It is a corporation to a world wide publishing empire...not a scriptural Christian organization of believers. While the GB has turned over the running of the day to day affairs to committees, the GB remains the head and heart of this large business corporation.

9

Witnesses to Abuse (New Hampshire JW Abuse Story)

by UnDisfellowshipped in

http://www.1590.com/stories/0,1413,222~23678~1492331,00.html

article published: thursday, july 03, 2003 - 8:38:27 am est .

witnesses to abuse

mizpah

It seems that "confidentiality" applies to elders and the Watchtower Society when it is convenient for their purposes. You may recall that a few years ago the Watchtower said that agreements of "confidentiality" would not apply to a Jehovah's Witness who, for example, worked in the medical or legal professions and found out that another Witness had taken a blood transfusion or had become pregnant outside of marriage. Then, it was the "duty" of that Witness to report such to the elders.

This is the type of double standards that permeate the Watchtower Society. While the average JW may dismiss this as part of the "theocratic warfare" waged against the world, the average person can see the dishonesty and lack of ethics that are involved.

139

WTS Addresses Child Abuse - er, kind of...

by iiz2cool in

my wife, who is intent on re-activating herself as a dub since i da'd myself, went to the convention this past weekend.

she showed me this new publication entitled "learn from the great teacher", and placed great emphasis on these two pages i scanned and am posting.

it makes a poor show of telling children what to do when confronted by a child abuser.

mizpah

To SOJ: Many of us are glad that the Watchtower organization is finally addressing the problem of sexual abuse of children. We do wonder, however, why it took so long since cases of abuse have been reported to the Watchtower Society for a number of years. The leaders of the organization must have known by the numbers that more children were going to be abused. Yet, no effort was made until bad publicity made the public aware of this problem.

Now, we sincerely question the motive of the Watchtower. Are these recent efforts merely a ploy to have as "evidence" to demonstrate in the courts? What has the Watchtower Society done to help the victims and their supporters? Why has it often disfellowshipped the victims and family members while keeping the perpetrators "in good standing" in the congregations? Why has it resisted giving financial aid to the viticms so they can seek professional help?

Until these questions are answered, we have good reason to criticize an organization that claims to represent God and Christ but abuses its most vulnerable members, its children.