Posts by Syme

21

Fastest TTATT ever, maybe!!!??

by Crazyguy in

Syme

This is not hard for a learned JW. They can easily respond that "Israel" refers to the spiritual Israel (hence the anointed), while ''all nations'' refers to, well, all nations. Arbitrary reasoning of course, but this is the 'correct' jw answer.

Things that have to do with the Org and the GB are far more likely to awake someone to TTATT. And if he's science-inclined, evolution, naturally.

If you are allowed to use *only* the Bible, there are dozens of things: The genocide of the Canaanites is one of my favourites. After reading some passage from Joshua or Judges (involving lot of slaughter), you ask: "What would you do if you were an Israelite Jehovah's witness at the time of the conquest of Canaan? Would you take the sword and slaughter kids, infants, and women?"

If he answers ''yes'', then you ask: "How can you, then, state before the secular authorities that you are a conscientious objector, that your conscience does not allow you to even HOLD a weapon, let alone use it???"

If he answers ''no'', then you say: ''Well, that would be disobeying Jehovah's organization. Would you disobey Jehovah's organization TODAY if your conscience told you so? The Organization today teaches that the annihilation of the Canaanites was justified. Do you agree with this or not?" [if he agrees, this contradicts his previous negative answer].

I've used this exact sequence in a couple of persons, and they did get a little disoriented...

7

Thank God for the Greeks, where would mankind be without those Pioneers.

by jam in

jw
friends

the greeks developed philosopy as a way of understanding the.

world around them, without resorting to religion, myth or.

magic.

Syme

Bugbear, thank you! I haven't ''officially'' studied those facts, but I read a lot on my own! (although I have studied, but not this)

That's exactly what every JW, escpecially young ones, should realise: You don't necessarily have to have a degree in History or Philosophy to know these things. Besides, most young j-dubs are discouraged from taking up ''higher'' studies, so they don't have a chance. What they DO have the chance (in most cases) is to go to a bookstore, buy a couple of books, and start READING. It's not that complicated. And if an overzealous JW reprehends them, they can always say they read so as to strengthen their faith by cross-referencing the Bible accuracy, or coz they want to search a topic that came up in field service, or tell them that the WT magazine has repeatedly encouraged us to have a general knowledge of secular literature [this is true], or something like that. :)

Now, about what you said, about what we can do, I haven't thought of it. Maybe we can start a new thread here on jwn, posting references and links to various historical sources, that help someone get a real grasp of world history and relevant things. Now, if you're suggesting anything bigger, I'm afraid I wouldn't have the time available right now to take it up.

Phizzy, yes, I agree: education is THE crucial factor. As Rutherford would put it: education, education, EDUCATION! I think that education stardards in UK are high, though. I've visited London only once, and I clearly remember the striking effect it had on me seeing all these primary school kids attending lectures in the National Gallery, or completing 'field' tasks inside the British Museum, or taking a tour to the Natural History Museum. These may seem normal to you, but to where I come from, those are really remarkable. When someone is taught, say, the theory of evolution or the history of mankind (which predates the story of Genesis) in such a young age, then one is not so prone to falling prey to charlatans.

56

Now predicting increase of anointed?

by jgnat in

i came across this nugget in the may 2014 issue:.

"are you moving ahead with jehovah's organization".

....at one time, the anointed remnant were like the little one, but their number grew as other spiritual israelites were brought into gods organization.

Syme

Oh Gawd, this so typical textbook Orwell...

It's like that scene in "1984", when the Party taught that Oceania had always been in war with Eurasia. When the allies changed and they went to war with Eastasia, the Party taught that Oceania had always been in war with Eastasia! And the 'sheep' took it!

It makes your head ache, these things, guys. Don't dwell so much in them. If one wants to be an Orwellian sheep, let them be. We use to blame the GB for everything, but the sheep are not free of fault. Ignorance is a choice.

7

Thank God for the Greeks, where would mankind be without those Pioneers.

by jam in

jw
friends

the greeks developed philosopy as a way of understanding the.

world around them, without resorting to religion, myth or.

magic.

Syme

The greatest contribution of ancient Greeks to humanity was the invention of "Orthos Logos", which can be translated as "reason", "logic'', ''orthological reasoning'', ''rational thought'' etc.

Heracletus, Epicurus, Lucretius, Democritus, Leukippus were some of the founders of reason. As of no surprise, most of them denied the existence of gods, or at least their intervention in human matters.

It was the coming of Christianity that marked the end of Logos and its substitution by the ''knowledge by divine revelation'': if God granted us all the knowledge we need, then why employ reasoning? So, that marked the end of the ancient world and the start of the Middle Ages. Islam in the 6th century was just another repetition of Christianity in that matter.

It took some one and a half millenium for mankind to discover once again the ancient art of Reason. This procedure started slowly after Renaissance but mostly came on screen during the Age of Enlightenment. The 19th century theory of Evolution was a grand manifestation of the triumph of Reason over religious superstitions.

In the 20th century, alas, we saw a revival of irrational thought, with all this science denial and ''new-age'' religions, and cults like, erm, you know :)

What the 21st century will bring in this fight of reason against irrationality, we will see.

95

The Judicial Committee videos in english

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

not sure if this has been posted but the jwsurvey site received the videos in english from someone.. this crap is pathetic to watch.

how to counsel someone who is suicidal... really.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/doubts-over-organizational-solidarity-as-disturbing-video-on-handling-suicide-is-leaked.

Syme

I... I don't know what to say, really.

I want to puke.

34

Overwhelming Fear of Death

by Perversion of a truth in

jw
friends

do any of the posters on here deal with this?

i do, and i hate it.

people (mostly my brother) tells me to not fear death and just to enjoy life and so on, but that doesn't seem to help any.

Syme

Perversion of a truth,

I STRONGLY recommend the book "Staring at the Sun" by Irvin Yalom. It deals with that topic exactly: fear of death. Please read it. It is like a journey in Epicurus' Garden. (you'll find what that is in the book)

17

Schizophrenia

by thedog1 in

jw
friends

that is what it feels like at the moment.

i am leading a field service group tomorrow morning.

taking the wt study on saturday.

Syme

Man, I feel for you. I mean, I feel sorry for you.

There are a lot of things you can do from your post, but it's up to you to decide if it's worth it, and if it is realistic to think you can change things from the inside.

Just remember that not even Ray Franz, who was an charismatic GB member, was able to change things from the inside. And you're just a local elder.

I have decided that this thing is definately not going to change by individual efforts from the inside. It is too large an organism. So I've decided to live my life, or what's left of it anyway. It is good to those around you happy, but at what cost on your life?

As for the bros and sis: they try to be Christians, but only in the way they've been told a Christian is; e.g. shunning former members, and craving for the oncoming death of 99.9% of humanity in Armageddon. Think about it.

20

Why Thousands of years instead of Billions???

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

jws have long ascribed billions of years to the age of the earth, yet only thousands to the length of the creative days (see 2014 awake!

on creation).

what game are they playing??

Syme

Bloody Hotdogs!,

It is all due to the Seventh Day: The seventh day is linked to the JW eschatology: it covers the period from the end of God's creative works to the ending of the 1.000 years Christ's reign. This period has to be around 7.000 years and not a lot more. If it lasted, say, 1M years or 1Bil years, do you understand the implications for the JW eschatology? Armageddon and the Millenium would be postponed to some millions years in the future!

No prophet has any chance of gaining followers unless he speaks of an IMMINENT 'End'.

They could, of course, change the length of only the*first* 6 days to millions of years, but then they'd have to justify somehow why the 7th day has different length.

74

Has the Governing Body Become More or Less Authoritarian in Recent Years?

by cofty in

it seems to me that this is a no-brainer but i have been out since '96.. so based on your personal experiences what do you think?.

lots more - a bit more - just the same as always - less - a lot less?.

if you think more or lots more can you spot a time or event when it started to change?.

Syme

I really agree with Borges!

As a child, in the late 80s and early 90s, I clearly remember a far more conservative JW church, in every way. Conservative elders, conservative R&F. And the GB was indeed authoritarian (in the conservative way); just read Ray Franz's account in CoC.

But, there was a difference. The local elders had more real authority. When I was a secretary I used to read old correspondence and files of the congs I served: there it was apparent that the elders did a lot of actual handling by themselves. They had *actual* opinion, and their opinion weighed heavily.

Now this has vanished. The current GB has taken the handling of each and every congregation as personally as ever. In this aspect, yes, it has become much more authoritarian. The GB now is de facto the BOE of every congregation. The local elders just carry out the endless inflow of ridiculously specific written instructions by the GB. The talks in meetings and conventions/assemblies are also more specifically layed out by the GB. (if you've taken a look at new talk layouts you know what I mean)

As a prime example: think of the recently leaked JC video that was shown in the Kingdom Ministry school. Would you imagine a 70s, 80s, or even 90s GB sending a video showing how exactly the elders should do every little detail of their job? This example I think illustrates how much more the GB is trying to handle all matters by themselves. Now, why is that? Don't they trust the BOEs anymore? Are they scared? These are good questions for another thread.

So, my opinion is: the GB is more authoritarian in organizational matters, but not behavioural ones. They succeed in being organizationally authoritarian because of the very structure and hierarchy of the religion. But, they don't succeed in being authoritarian with regards to the JWs way of living, because the world changes (to the more liberal), and so does every human on this planet, even JWs. For instance, they tried to be authoritarian with the Internet: they failed. Now they embrace the net. They tried to be authoritarian with porn: they failed (they still try hard with that; good luck). They tried to be authoritarian with studies: I don't think they succeeded; most jw youths in my area see studying in college as something really natural. They tried to make every jw spend all their time in field service: instead, they had to lower *their* standards in order to keep their numbers of auxiliary and regular pioneers.

61

Elders School 2013: Model Judicial Committee Videos and messages from the GB

by hildebrando in

for the first time, weve accessed to audiovisual material in spanish, regarding the elders schools.

here is a video of a dramatization of a model judicial committee, in addition to letts introduction (speaking with strange gestures) and comments from anthony morris iii:.

http://hildeydesa.blogspot.com/2014/02/escuela-de-ancianos-2013-videos-de.html.

Syme

From a certain perspective, it is strange.

It is strange that the GB presses for more disfellowshippings at a time when stagnation knocks at the door.

Many JW are leaving deliberately, more are fading/becoming inactive, and many more give in to apathy. The field work is now a mere distribution of cheap leaflets; few are 'qualified' to serve as elders, most R&F don't want to go into that procedure.

Still, the Org is pressing for more ridigness...

It is a risky game on their part, they prefer to have them under high control even if they are less in numbers; however, the laws of nature dictate that from a certain point on, too much pressure will lead to a 'pressure relief'.