Posts by Syme

14

THE TWO BABYLONS as a template for Watch Tower dishonesty in history

by Terry in

proof isn't proof at the watchtower.

"proof" is a reconstruction like frankenstein's monster kept alive by flashes of "new light" made up as needed to revitalize a quivering monstrosity.. at first glimpse it looks like science.

when the smoke clears it is madness and obsession riven with fierce contrarian nincompoopery.. ****.

Syme

Terry, very interesting thoughts.

I have this book, and have read it thouroughly. Back at that time, I thought it as a masterpiece, failing to see its pseudo-scientific method.

You say at a point that " Alexander Hislop published a pamphlet (later enlarged into a book) THE TWO BABYLONS* and promoted it thru the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society." So was Hislop aware of the existence of the WTS? And did he actually used it as a channel for his ideas? Would you happen to know if there's any evidence for that statement, and if yes, where can we find it?

Thank you.

44

Hello - mentally out, physically in...

by Bluefluff in

i have been lurking for a while but was encouraged to sign up by a user on the ex jw reddit forum.

i'm a still in jw but i've been mentally out for about two months.

i'm an ms and i'm also gay so i have two lots of 'coming out' to do very soon!.

Syme

Welcome Bluefluff!

16

Where does the need to worship god come from?

by Socrateswannabe in

where does the need to worship god come from?.

this is a question that i asked myself repeatedly when i used to believe that god exists.

i struggled with this because i have never had the urge, and i imagined myself an ingrate because of it.

Syme

Very good topic, Socrates.

There are, of course, lots of theories trying to explain that need for worship.

I think the basic reason was self-awareness, as Giordano placed it; specifically, the awareness of our own certain eventual death, as well as the fear of the unknown. The fear of nature's forces may had played an additional role.

Maybe the first segments of worship had to do with death rituals and buryings. The awe, and fear, in the face of death is clearly depicted in every burying from the beginning of mankind.

That could be the start, but how was it propagated thereafter? Dawkins (yeah, I know, some of you think of him as the Devil; he's not), has this theoy about memes which tries to explain that.

I would try it with an example: Dreams comprise of things that leave an impression on our daily life return in our dreams exaggerated, just like a curved mirror depicts an distorted idol. Our fears may come on us at nights distorted, seeming like monsters. Those monsters, may return again and again in our dreams. This is not worrying, it's natural. However, one may find himself so deep in those dreams that he confuses reality with dream; he may come to think that those dreams have a higher meaning, maybe a supernatural one. What if he decides to pass on the content of those dreams in his offspring or his tribe? Those who listen to him may believe that those monsters are something more than contents of a dream. With enough time passing, future generations who preserve this 'knowledge' may feel there's a need to ease the mood of those monsters by worshipping them. Thus, a method of worship appears, with rituals, rules and of course, priesthood. After enough generations, a cult is established, worshipping something that people are SURE is real, but in reality, it is just a monster from some guy's dream in the past. The oral tradition may be put in writing, when writing is invented, and so we have a written form of this cult. Those writings, plus the oral tradition, now serve as EVIDENCE for the existence of monsters (gods, demons, you name them); it will take centuries and the invention of rational, scientific method of thinking, for (some) people to realise they are not.

26

Seeds of Doubt.

by donny in

seeds of doubt.

what was it about the jw religion that first gave you serious doubts as to its truthiness?.

for me it occurred in late 1984 when we were studying the brochure the divine name that will endure forever which had been released at the summer convention that year.

Syme

Evolution was the first crack for me. Learning and studying all the huge amounts of evidence for evolution; evidence that the WTS (and all creationists) place under the carpet.

It did not shake my belief in the WTS per se, though, but in the scientific accuracy of the Bible in general. The crack as regards to the WTS itself came a little later, when I cross-referenced all the quotations and statements made in the Life-How Did it Come Here? book. It was then when I saw that all those arguments were in fact plain copy from earlier creationist literature: so we use arguments and fallacies from other religious creationist groups, and then we dismiss creationists as members of 'Babylon the Great'. That was a crack for the WTs itself.

42

Death threats and Hate mail from Jehovah's Witnesses

by Watchtower-Free in

are jws becoming radicalized?.

exposing hypocritical jehovah's witnesses.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/178644278990236/.

Syme

Why should you be surprised that jws are haters? Why, because they obey the command ''Love one another?" But that command means exactly what is says: love ONE --> ANOTHER, not everyone! Love only your fellow believers! Maybe because they refuse to take up weapons and go to war? Well, the reason they don't ''learn war'' is not because they're pacifists. They have NO PROBLEM with war in general, as long as it is a God-driven war. They have no problem with the (fictional, thankfully) war agaists the Canaan tribes; they have no problem with the genocidal war that Jehovah will supposedly bring to all mankind except JWs.

So, why exactly are the jws not supposed to be haters?

[cofty, glad to see someone setting the record straight for that hypocritical reigious persona, Teresa! Few people actually know the full story of her.]

24

Is saying "I don't want to be a Jehovah's Witness anymore" enough?

by DuvanMuvan in

jw
friends

i was just wondering.

say you were baptised and stopped going to the meetings, when the elders and people ask why can you just say you don't want to be a jw anymore without giving a reason?

i mean it's not like they can force it out of you and you aren't necessarily spreading lies or whatever they say apostates do.. if anything they'll have to keep talking to you to find an actual reason to df you so if you're literally as vague as possible then what basis do they have?

Syme

DuvanMuvan, if you say "I don't want to be a Jehovah's Witness anymore", you'll be asked to put this in writing, and when you do, it will be considered a letter of disassociation. So you'be DA'd, not DF'ed. But the result will still be the same: complete shunning.

So, you'd better not say this phrase unless, of course, you have decided to actually DA.

If you don't want to be DA'd or DF'd at that moment, you can simply not give an explanation at all. They can't physically force you, we're not in the Middle Ages. Play by your rules, not theirs. You can also give an inaccurate or incomplete reason, such as, "I'm depressed, I've been very busy", that sort of stuff. It may sound as a lie, but hey, the WTS is constantly lying on topics such as evolution and everything else. You can also deny meeting with 2 elders, while accepting meeting with one. Simple safety measures.

23

Every JW should pay attention to Steven Pinker's lecture: A History of Violence

by cognisonance in

came across this lecutre (or alternatively you can read the transcript) in a class from yale on moralities of everyday life:.

a history of violence edge master class 2011some excepts:.

"believe it or notand i know most people do notviolence has been in decline over long stretches of time, and we may be living in the most peaceful time in our species' existence.".

Syme

The contents of this lecture are layed down more analytically in Steven Pinker's book "The Beter Angels of our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined". It is a MUST-READ book, a book that completely changes your worldview. Are we living in a more, or less, violent world than in the past? Is the world going from bad to worse, or from bad to better?

For one that's been indoctrinated with the the apocalyptic worldview that the world is getting worse and worse until Armageddon arrives, this book is a real eye-opener; a refhreshment of rational thought in the waste land of apocalyptic religion.

15

Jehovah doesn't like laws!

by Separation of Powers in

jw
friends

i was speaking to a friend who went to the circuit assembly a couple weeks ago.

he actually taped a portion of the first talk cause he said the do was pretty entertaining.

the do said something like - jehovah doesn't like laws.

Syme

Brother Separation of Powers,

I am afraid you have just committed the sin of THINKING.

You will have to be processed for interrogation and correction, so that you dispose yourself of your sin. After you repent, you will be vaporized, so that no memory of your grave sin is being held for future generations. No one will know you ever existed. You will not cease to exist, merely; you will cease to ever HAVE existed.

Sincerely,

The Secretary for the Ministry of Love

(that was clearly a parody, inspired by Orwell, showing what really is the most lethal sin in every totalitarian status: the sin of thinking. You do this, and you're done.)

56

ALL JW's to be at the meeting this week...

by Newly Enlightened in

.

we asked this person if it could be aqbout the terminology change and they said that was already read last week...... we remember the last time they did this.

got everyone all excited thinking the big "a" was coming and all it was about, was the literature would now be donated instead of charging for it.. .

Syme

TO BE READ IN EVERY CONGREGATION:

"Dear Brothers,

We are thrilled to announce that the Great Tribulation has begun! After carefully and prayerfully reviewing the Scriptures in the light of recent world events (world economic crisis, erm, bad things, wars, you know), it seems apparent that the Great T has indeed begun.

This means that action must be taken by all of us, according to Jesus' words in Luke, as well as in the prophecy of Isiah. So, effective immediately, all baptized publishers are instructed to hand in their immobile and mobile property to the Organization, in order to prepare for the coming harsh attack on God's people by Gog's forces. This logically includes all bank deposits a publisher may have. In opposite case, Satan's worldly powers could be in a position to get hold of publishers' valuables and confiscate them. The Bible clearly says they will try to do that! So, that is why we must not let them. We should all remember that when we devoted ourselves to Jehovah, we handed down to Him everything we owned, including all material wealth. So, Jehovah is actually the Owner of all that we got. Do you want to allow the worldly authorities steal what is owned by God? May that never happen!

Now is the time, brothers, for immediate obedience, so that we are safe in Jehovah's hands. Please remember what the Watchtower wrote some time ago: "Our survival through the Great Tribulation will depend on the speed by which we obey the instructions given to us by God's Organization". The time to follow this advice has arrived.

We are certain that you will do what is required in order to remain in God's love in those last hours of Satan's wicked system.

Our thoughts and prayers are always with you.

Your ''brothers'',

Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses"

7

Yesterday's WT "Study".

by piztjw in

so here are some interesting quotes from the wt in yesterday's wt "study".

i have printed some words in bold type to make my point.. par.

12 "as part of that annual observance, children would ask their parents questions....".

Syme

Oh, please, they don't smoke anything in the ''Ivory tower''. They are NOT afraid about anyone seeing the inconstistency, because NO ONE is going to see the inconsistency, because EVERYONE is too brainwashed and practically RETARD to see the incosistency!

They're playing with the flock like a shepherd playing with his stupid sheep. (sheep are classified as really stupid as far as mammals are concerned)

And even if, one in a thousand, one in a ten-thousand, sees the incostistency, so what? If he continues to think critically he'll be DF'd and shunned.

That's why they don't give a dime if anyone spots any ''incosistency''.