Frank75

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Posts by Frank75

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  33

  No more book study nights !!!!!

  by Iwonder17 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i went to our "last" book study night last night.

  there were actually people crying during the last prayer !!!!

  omg.

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  Frank75

  WH - No one answered my question about the possibility of reinstatement of the meeting now with gas prices down.

  My question has gone unanswered too..(Yes there are still dubs who talk to me...). Truth is, no matter how much people will miss this particular meeting, it will be a relief getting one less thing to be guilted about.

  There are those too who can't forget being told that meetings would increase as the end got closer (ala Heb 10:24,25). Dropping a meeting at least on some level tells the RF that "the bomb" is farther off than close.

  Moshe-If they do this very many weeks in a row the WT mind control could begin to crack

  I have to agree. Many dubs feel alienated and passed over at the main meetings. With the BS gone, the feelings of isolation and of being alone will get harder to bear. Sad really as it may lead even more down the darkest paths emotionally.

  The BS offered some level of comfort too for those who have anxiety in large groups.

  The worst part about it, is that even with the WT's rivers drying up, they still leave many of their followers (former one too) trapped mentally behind a wall of beliefs and guilt that won't go away on its own....sigh!

  Frank75
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  29

  little WT extras

  by agent zero in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  you know whats always bothered me intensely?

  .. when witnesses (esp.

  pioneers) have all the little wt extras, such as the wt year agenda, the wt removable book covers, bible with their name printed on the leather cover, the rv book with the little tower logo on it, "pens from patterson" etc.

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  Frank75

  The coloured highlighters. Now that brings back memories...!

  What a joke!

  How absolutely unspiritual all those people were from before the highlighter was invented!

  Frank75
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  9

  A new generation of jws

  by Fisherman in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  what are the new jws going to be like?.

  seems that bethel is no longer looking for jws to make bethel their career, not unless one is a doctor, lawyer, engineer or very educated or talented individual that the wts can prophet from.

  people now comming to bethel are ones that will stay during their youth and then get out.

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  Frank75

  Who woulda thought the dubs would drop the Book Study arrangement?

  What you point out is very valid. Pioneering will only be an option for precious few who have the means either by their parents or some other fortunate circumstance.

  What we are witnessing (no punn intended) is the gradual mainstreaming of the Watchtower religion. Over the next few years we will probably see their "preaching" take on a completely different look and even possibly allowing people to participate voluntarily. More and more just don't go out in door to door and the leadership will need to deal with this reality as these people are still hard core dubs!

  Frank75
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  36

  From Your Experience: Did Elder's Families Get Away With More Than Others?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was everyone treated the same in your hall?

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  Frank75

  This is one of those questions that requires a "it depends"!

  It has regularly been pointed out here that it is not the people who are necessarily bad, but it is the structure that's twisted and makes it a paradise for abuse. As a result there are decent elders and even decent bodies of elders AS FAR AS JW's go. In other words inside their little world of gross sin, pornea and the rest of it they dish out JW discipline as fairly as possible, even with their own children.

  In politically charged environments like JW's there are also situations where men with children may be elders, but they are on the outs or on a hit list with the other elders. In this situation indiscretions by the children of those elders might actually be treated more severely than children of the rank and file dubs in the same hall! In one congregation I had the displeasure being involved with, the elders routinely waged war with one another through their children. In those cases it was better to be just a publisher!

  I knew an elder who had several children. Some he showered affection and nepotism on and others who were major disappointments to him, he literally hated! They got whatever he could dish them with his own private army in the elders. However his darlings (at least one of them) got away with murder.

  By and large, not withstanding the comments by some who truly were treated either just like everyone else or even worse, the status quo was to cover up the indiscretions of elders families if at all possible. All in the name of preserving the image of Elders that the WT wants to portray. Elders would often call in favours that involved the indiscretions of other elder families, or call on clout they had from relationships with CO's, DO's and other prominent dubs.

  So again it is generally true but not absolute as many of the above experiences show.

  Frank75
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  39

  I have a theory regarding Elders

  by Peppermint in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there has been much talk about the reasons for the demise of the book study.

  the society claim rising gas/petrol prices, which of course is not the real reason.

  some here think its down to declining numbers of elders and those who are reaching out.

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  Frank75

  Trickie - Should we trust the elders in a spiritual sense? Yes, they are directed by God

  This is a very shallow statement. When JW's do something good it is always evidence of Jehobers spirit or blessing. However bad things, such as the pedophile scandal which involves countless "Elders" who are supposed to be directed by the "Holy Spirit" it is dismissed as insignificant or attributed to Satan. Or as you say no different than other large organizations which you would also point out ARE NOT directed by this HOLY SPIRIT!

  Recently I was chatting with my nephew who was raised a JW. He got involved with drugs and petty crime, went to juevy and then adult prison. Most of his problems resulted from having an inattentive and abusive father who is in good standing in the JW community. Recently down on his luck he has moved back home and been forced to attend JW meetings in exchange for room and board. He has quit hard drugs, quit smoking and hanging with so called "bad kids". (He admitted that he still has a joint now and then) He gives the credit for quiting and getting his life relatively under control to the JW's.

  I reminded him that he was a JW when he got involved with those vices. He said yeah so what's your point. The point is that the religion cannot be given credit for getting him off those vices without also taking responsibility for him getting on them in the first place.

  Frank75
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  39

  I have a theory regarding Elders

  by Peppermint in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there has been much talk about the reasons for the demise of the book study.

  the society claim rising gas/petrol prices, which of course is not the real reason.

  some here think its down to declining numbers of elders and those who are reaching out.

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  Frank75

  Trickie - WHITE DOVE - NEVER are you told to trust Elders or anybody in the org with your life and NEVER should you even do so. They themselves say that everybody is imperfect, dont ever leave your kids alone with ANYBODY thats just dumb.

  Trickie - NOT TRUE!

  I once felt as you did and argued out of both sides of my mouth in defense of the lunacy of so called "elders". Most are just snot nosed kids age wise with little life experience. There "appointing" has nothing to do with God or holy spirit but everything to do with politics and ass kissing.

  Arguing the difference between physically trusting them and spiritually so is a distinction without a difference and has been shown by Gordy to be utter nonsense!.

  Here is one very recent position of the WT on Trusting Elders.

  ***

  w033/1p.17par.17TrustinJehovahWithAllYourHeart***

  In addition, trusting in Jehovah means trusting those whom he trusts. For example, Jehovah has arranged for "the faithful and discreet slave" to care for the earthly Kingdom interests. (Matthew 24:45-47) We do not try to go it alone, and we do not ignore that appointment, for we trust in Jehovah’s arrangement. Further, elders serve in the local Christian congregation and, according to the apostle Paul, are appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) By cooperating with the elder arrangement in the congregation, we also show that we trust in Jehovah.

  That is one of the most clever deceptions the WT has used in twisting scripture to suit their ends. The bible advises in many places not to trust men.

  Here the WT redefines what trusting Jehober means to dubs.....trusting men, the GB and so called "Elders"!

  I like the line "according to Apostle Paul". So it is his fault these cranks are out there wreaking havoc on people. It is easy to prove with his own writings that he would condemn JW's as modern-day false prophet, and arguably the greatest one of our time.

  Frank75
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  14

  JW Take on Matt 18 and Reporting "Sin" to "Elders"

  by Frank75 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering what your impressions are of the recent convo i had with a jw elder who thought he would call up his old "apostate" buddy and try to sell him some software.

  i agreed to the meeting thinking this would be great.

  my own mother won't talk to me but this guy feels this "business" would allow him to fraternise.. he quickly gets on the jw topic by mentioning a recent funeral of a mutual acquaintance in the "tooth" and why i wasn't there.

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  Frank75

  I should send a copy of our email exchange along with a cover letter to the Society.

  Waddya think? I don't think they would let it go really.

  Frank75

  Dear Bethel:

  I am a notorious local Apostate and the other day......
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  60

  Well I'm Out!!!!

  by ImFreeatlast in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it took a long time, but i can finally say i'm out and i took my family with me.. this is my first post but i have been reading here for a while.

  i was brought up a witness, in a family that was very 'strong' (or so everyone thought).

  i didnt have a relationship with my perents at all other than the 'family study'.

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  Frank75

  FAL:

  You made my day!

  Welcome to the dark side!

  Frank75
• 
  14

  JW Take on Matt 18 and Reporting "Sin" to "Elders"

  by Frank75 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering what your impressions are of the recent convo i had with a jw elder who thought he would call up his old "apostate" buddy and try to sell him some software.

  i agreed to the meeting thinking this would be great.

  my own mother won't talk to me but this guy feels this "business" would allow him to fraternise.. he quickly gets on the jw topic by mentioning a recent funeral of a mutual acquaintance in the "tooth" and why i wasn't there.

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  Frank75

  OTWO: The thing is, these guys don't apply it evenly.

  So true what you said. I know and so does this goof ball "elder", that what you describe is usually the way things work out.

  But again my clown elder buddy wasn't saying that him and his wife secretly go out and have group sex and hide it from the other elders. He said the position I stated of the OM book and the KS is not true. As in you guys said in 1968 that "the destruction of this system of things was just a few years away" and the response "no we did not!"

  My above email was dismissed with this:

  Hi Frank75, I think I need to be very clear with you on how I view the type of dialogue you outline below – I simply don’t view it as productive. In the end neither one of us has plans to change and that’s why I don’t see the value in a discussion of this nature

  I respect your position and you have every right to your thoughts on any matter related to the bible or any other secular publication as do I. I would simply prefer to shelve the discussion and focus on the business issue that YOUR COMPANY has. Regards, X

  Never did I say it is "my position" being presented. Nor do I desire him to change his religion or position on what he personally believes. Just acknowledge that this is the official CURRENT position of his cult er uh religion!

  I sensed that X, however I consider it very productive to ascertain a persons honesty, willingness to acknowledge a mistake and even apologize. How would it not be productive for me to see a JW elder tell the truth and humbly acknowledge a mistake for a change? I don't give a rats ass what the WT says about this or that or what you believe. Nowhere below do I tell you what you should believe or force you to accept anything that you don't already espouse. I only care that YOU be honest with me. I stated a fact and you told me I was wrong. You never once said, "Well the Society says that, but I believe this." Your lack of response is all that matters to me now. If you cannot be honest with me in matters of your Faith how on earth can I trust you to be so in business? I just cannot. Therefore we have nothing ELSE to discuss. Thanks for your time the other day. If you ever wish to have an honest discussion about anything, I am always here.

  I know I know, it's a waste of time.

  But if just one limbo JW sees what he is up against it helps them to make a decision, this post has served its purpose

  Frank75
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  14

  JW Take on Matt 18 and Reporting "Sin" to "Elders"

  by Frank75 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was wondering what your impressions are of the recent convo i had with a jw elder who thought he would call up his old "apostate" buddy and try to sell him some software.

  i agreed to the meeting thinking this would be great.

  my own mother won't talk to me but this guy feels this "business" would allow him to fraternise.. he quickly gets on the jw topic by mentioning a recent funeral of a mutual acquaintance in the "tooth" and why i wasn't there.

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  Frank75

  I knew of situations as well were 2 elders talked to a person and covered it over, no JC and matter closed. I know that happens and I could argue that the KS actually allows for that or could be narrowly interpreted to that end by a decent fair minded person. At the end of the day it is usually 2 or 3 elders who run the show in most congregations so who would challenge. Go to the service desk and raise a stink, you make yourself look bad and they will tell you to go with the majority flow anyway.

  I actually think it happens a lot, there are still good people in the JW religion. Especially in minority language congregations who strain to hold on to every member possible.

  What buddy said is that it was ok to deal with it himself, alone. Albeit he is a dub "elder". But he said anyone could do it, they just "usually" come forward because they are "not qualified". Remember he is still arguing from the standpoint that it is a "loving arrangement" so it is no big deal either way.

  I only called the nut-job on the table because he wanted to sell me something. I told him I needed to know he would be honest with me and hate using his religious beliefs, but he brought it up.

  Frank75