Posts by Frank75

23

"Out of One, Many"

by Farkel in

for you apostate warriers, old and new, take this to heart.

if you are like me, you get discouraged from time to time what with all the noise and fluff floating around.

i can't count the number of times i've asked myself "is this worth the effort?".

Uzzah and myself go back to childhood. I am impressed upon reflection, how our lives have come full circle almost simultaneously. For me, I started 11 years ago posting as a JW apologist on H2O against the likes of Farkel and AF (AlanF- Are we allowed to say his JWD name here?) among others.

I think Uzzah's analogy is well worded although I am afraid the dragons are still out there along with the breeder male. That being said I concur with his sentiments and am often made to feel like a dinosaur nowadays!

Farkel! To you I too owe a debt of gratitude that I really have never paid out to you. So this is as good a time as any!

You and those like you who gave of yourselves (while I was counting time and earning salvation) will always be remembered with fondness and affection by me.

Love and Peace, but most of all Thanks!

From Frank75 (Frank on H2O) and all those who I have helped out of the Borg!

78

A fair and reasonable question for Jehovah's Witnesses

by Gregor in

your organization has always been intently focused on "witnessing" and this includes going right up to strangers homes, knocking on their door attempting to engage them in a discussion of their beliefs.

you come prepared to point out the error of whatever faith they hold.

doctrines such as immortality of the soul, the trinity and eternal torment in hell you declare as false teachings and can back up your assertions with scriptures and skilled argument.

Frank75

YM

I can concede to most of your rebuttal of my post. I did not comb thru everything Gregor wrote nor did I analyze everything you wrote. (there is a lot to go thru)

Therefore I can repent where I have erred.

What I would like to comment is on the point you made about what would stop you from posting. After my first post you wrote:

I wasent going to leave over Gregor, however if everyone agreed that I was not being honest, then it would be pointless to stay.

Above in your comments to me, you wrote:

In addition, I said that I would not post on this board IF the majority agreed I was being dishonest because if thats the case, how would our conversations be productive?

However the comment I was referring to as "blackmail" was this:

if there is anyone else here that agrees with Gregor, please post, so I will know to stop posting. i dont want to waste my time nor yours.

I can not speak for Gregor and like I said I have not examined under a microscope what the contention on either side was. That is between you and him. However that comment is what got me going and what I referred. Your response to me is not fair (honest) in that you have changed the criteria which now makes my comment look foolish.

Now people who come along and see your post about a "majority" or the previous one that uses the word "everyone" does seem to make me look like I am crying the sky is falling.

Is that fair given that what I was responding to was the comment "if anyone else" agrees with him you would stop posting? Is there not a difference between saying "if anyone" as opposed to your revised if everyone?

This type of table turning and revisionist history is what JWs are known for everywhere outside of the infamous "Organization" and I was a part of that too. When I was confronted with that TRUTH through examining the type of revision done by the Society I came to the conclusion that most here have also, and hopefully you will too.

Namely, that the WT speaks not the truth, but falsehood and more often than you might be able to accept right now. However take your time and do your homework. An honest person cannot be party with people who are "deliberately" dishonest.

I see you as an honest person and am only showing you that what happened above is a type of dishonesty, and I am not afraid to point it out, because we have all been guilty of it at one time or another.

Frank75

78

A fair and reasonable question for Jehovah's Witnesses

by Gregor in

your organization has always been intently focused on "witnessing" and this includes going right up to strangers homes, knocking on their door attempting to engage them in a discussion of their beliefs.

you come prepared to point out the error of whatever faith they hold.

doctrines such as immortality of the soul, the trinity and eternal torment in hell you declare as false teachings and can back up your assertions with scriptures and skilled argument.

Frank75

CD- I don't agree with the poster who said you are the visitor here.

Perhaps you simply don't get what I meant. This is Gregors thread, not that he owns it, or anyone else including Simon. People who enter the thread, including me and you should try to show the same courtesy as someone visiting a host on their doorstep IMHO. They set the parameters for the discussion by the thread and their opening post. If we are to be civilised we should recognize that that theme (thread) along with his comments are the touchstone of the discussion.

Likewise, we are not talking on this thread about someone having a birthday, lost a boyfriend or Global Warming. We are talking about JW's and their propensity to be dishonest and evasive when presented with "fair and reasonable questions". That is the norm and I would hope that yourmomma is not typical, but the onus is still on him to back up his sincere assertions.

CD - You are not obligated to answer any questions.

Of course he isn't obligated to answer anything. But when someone makes a claim that he or she is this or that, there is nothing wrong with asking them to prove or back it up. I know lots of people who say they are honest and are quick to assess themselves in such a positive way (as we all do). Or even get upset when they are told, "you don't mind if I don't take your WORD for that". However, when given a small test if you will, on said honesty in a small way, a failure to be honest, even intellectually belies the initial claim.

Lastly, in general JW's are quick to pull out the "you are judging me" card when statements of common knowledge are made. For the sake of brevity, some assumptions have to be made on beliefs and certain assumptions about the members in general. The Witness religion teaches certain things about blood transfusions, or that every member must go door to door for example. Very few other religions have such a regimented belief system, yet the Watchtower, and subsequently its members make such assumptions all the time about Cathoilics or Jews or even Atheists. Look at the Reasoning book for God's sake!

It is not fair for a JW to say, "you have no right to make that assumption, I don't believe that" because WE DO have the right to assume that! It is a prerequisite of membership! If someone doesn't agree with the current blood policy, or doctrine of preaching, then THEY AREN'T JW's! It is that simple! And whether he knows it or not, it is a published doctrine of the church that "to be approved" each member must accept "the entire range of Witness beliefs". - *** w864/1pp.30-31QuestionsFromReaders***

Frank75

78

A fair and reasonable question for Jehovah's Witnesses

by Gregor in

your organization has always been intently focused on "witnessing" and this includes going right up to strangers homes, knocking on their door attempting to engage them in a discussion of their beliefs.

you come prepared to point out the error of whatever faith they hold.

doctrines such as immortality of the soul, the trinity and eternal torment in hell you declare as false teachings and can back up your assertions with scriptures and skilled argument.

Frank75

however i want to know if others feel they way gregor does. if that's the case, let me know, and i can move on. that would be a shame because so far i am finding this enjoyable.

Wait a minute here! This is a type of emotional blackmail IMHO.

How can you write off this board based on what Gregor wrote above (I see nothing other than a direct request for more information from you) and the existence of others who might "feel the same or agree with him" after all you have written about everyone being entitled to their opinion? Let alone saying that it is not fair to blanket all JW's because of a few bad apples?

Kindly consider the NWT " (1 Peter 3:14) 14 But even if YOU should suffer for the sake of righteousness, YOU are happy. However, the object of their fear do not YOU fear, neither become agitated."

See, no need to be agitated. In fact you should be happy when someone takes a jab, even giddy!

As a JW for 40 years I EXPECTED to be treated insolently by outsiders, but still obeyed Peter who continued and said vs 15, " . . .always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of YOU a reason for the hope in YOU, but doing so together with a mild temper and deep respect."

If you are Christ's true disciple (and a better than most JW by your own comments) it would show in your actions when questioned, even when cornered (yes even disrespectfully). The onus from above to be respectful is on you, not the one asking you. You have Jesus example to guide you. He never ran from or ignored questions, he only evaded those who wanted to kill him prematurely. There is no chance of that happening here.

So do your duty as a Jehovah's Witness, bear witness to us "with a mild temper and deep respect" and all should go smoothly. Right?

Frank75 (my belated welcome to this board, and remember you are the visitor)

23

The real story: Is your congregation stagnant, dwindling or thriving?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

with the 2007 service year stats out one could be forgiven for thinking that wt's problems are over, the child abuse settlement an itch in their bethel backside and the blood issue a minor annoyance.. if the truth were known, it is probably that more often than not, congregations are in decline, attendance is poor and few new recruits are not already jw family members.. so, if you know how your congregation is doing, if you have the pulse of your hall, let us know.. .

my congregation (which shall remain nameless).

dwindling attendance at all meetings (around 80%).

Frank75

I told my wife that either I can't count, the attendants can't count, or somebody is lying.

When I was the attendant in charge of this back in the 90's, I soon realized the numbers was all the CO was interested in. I then started to fudge the count. I never was so brash as to go plus 20, maybe as much as 4-6 to get above the circuit average was my goal.

It did the trick until someone figured out what I was doing and I was moved over to Subscriptions. LOL

It was fun while it lasted, but in true JW dysfunction no one ever said a thing to me. I guess it just bugged them to hear the CO praising the faithful for a change.

The other pricks were nasty at the counting. They would not count sleeping or inattentive youngsters (actually in the guidelines) and one asshole counted as soon as the meeting started and then waited until the Service Meeting announcements to count knowing full well that people were still in the washroom.

Over all, I think what has been stated is accurate. The dubs are in sad decline (no matter what their annual report says, they are provable habitual Liars) People still in are mostly lost as they search for the ideal congregation. That is why you can drive by a Hall shared by a number of congo's on a Sunday and see 20 cars at 10:00, 25 cars at 1:00 and then a capacity parking lot at 7:00!

The Internet and sites like this (when the mods aren't out of control) are changing that to a degree.

Frank75

120

calling all firearm freaks...............

by primitivegenius in

looking at the gopher thread............. we got us some good old fashioned redneck gun afficiandos................ just curious......... whats your top ten wish list.... pairs dont count as two.

) a pair of les baer srp's built on a para ordinace p 14.45 frame......... all stainless but with baer coat im thinking olive and i want the light rail.

) a pair of consecutive sn ruger vaqueros in .45 colt w/ extra .45 acp cylinders rebuilt by gary reeder or doug turnbull..........4.5 barrel.

Frank75

I just got my unrestricted firearms license (shotgun and rifle) and will be going shopping after christmas. ( Got a Rifle safe for christmas but I am not supposed to know it...hehe!)

What do you rednecks recommend for this wanna be?

Remember, no matter how large the magazine or clip, Ontario restricts it two 3 cartriges/bullets max. (trying to be as gay as Quebec)

Frank75

PS Is bikerchic alowed into this thread?

94

What Has Happened to This Place!!??

by journey-on in

jw
friends

what has happened to this place??!!.

i left this board a while back to reorganize and get refocused.

the vibe of jwd was changing and the forum became "unbalanced" (for lack of a better word).

Frank75

now you see why he has only 3 posts left!
Buy a clue Frank, sigh.

If clue" is Dyke talk for tickets to the Lesbian Christmas ball, I'll take two.

My buddy and I like to watch if the girls look half decent. Send me a pic of you and your squeeze and I'll let you know how you score.

But seriously, you didn't have to go show everyone the glove fits you so well.

I could have been talking about any of the Mod's or it could be just something harmless and funny to make people laugh and lift the mood.

But oh no! You have to come right in on cue, Guess Who Everybody!

Way to go!

Frank75

94

What Has Happened to This Place!!??

by journey-on in

jw
friends

what has happened to this place??!!.

i left this board a while back to reorganize and get refocused.

the vibe of jwd was changing and the forum became "unbalanced" (for lack of a better word).

Frank75

Speak of the devil! If it aint my old friend DYKER Chic.

Have a good one.

Frank75

Is that the right shade of kacky?

Damn, now I am down to 3 posts left.

94

What Has Happened to This Place!!??

by journey-on in

jw
friends

what has happened to this place??!!.

i left this board a while back to reorganize and get refocused.

the vibe of jwd was changing and the forum became "unbalanced" (for lack of a better word).

Frank75

I agree, lots of soap and drama here. It would be ok if the sex was there too.

I think one of the reasons may be the mods. Their playbook seems to be loosely based on the Watchtower KS book combined with the Vagina monologues.

The new Anointed Gods (Godesses)" of cyberspace.

Hail!

Frank75

Oh look!! I now have 4 more posts I can make out of my limit of 5

5

The spiritual bully

by Hiddenwindow in

jw
friends

the watch tower falsely claims that the entire international witness brotherhood holds to the same way of thinking on doctrinal matters; that all members in the congregation who are good christians deeply believe in whatever the faithful and discreet slave provides.

well, one thing is to pretend that you are in agreement with whatever is presented to you and something very different is to really believe in it.

it must be reminded that nowadays, in most mainstream religious groups, political parties or other forms of social groups, absolute uniformity in the way of thinking is not a prerequisite to join, because those groups recognize that such uniformity is not possible.

Frank75

Not to take away from Hidden windows excellent post above.

HW - Raymond Franz's books demonstrate that it is not the case.

I think that you and Auld Soul are talking two different things. True, the original IBSA was a non denominational inter religious movement and Russell did not start out to be a bully, but eventually did as is argued in Penton's Apocalypse Delayed. Comments Russell made even early on implied he had some special gift, knowledge or contact with the divine. He once wrote that people who read the bible without his books would go into spiritual darkness within 2 years. That is spiritual bullying, no matter how sincere he was about it.

Since people bought into it and came under his tutelage, he started to bully the IBStudent even if only in a gradual way. First he brought in structured meetings with a tighter and tighter agenda. Then the arbitrary rules started and so it went until he passed on the towel.

That being said, Auld Soul's comment doesn't disagree with what you say or what I wrote above. Auld Soul puts the bullying on the "Jehovah's Witnesses" and the mastermind of the true JW FDS doctrine. That bullying which is undeniable, was merely intensified when Rutherford took over. It became an art foem by the time that group of Bible Students that was following him took on the new name.

Forgive me for speaking on his behalf, but that is what I believe he referred to when he said "there has never been a time when Jehovah's Witnesses (as a religion) were not spiritual bullies".

That is the simple truth for clarity

Frank75