Posts by Odrade

16

Those who have not defiled themselves with women

by Doug Mason in

i am seeking a copy of this article:.

those who have not defiled themselves with women: revelation 14:4 and the book of enoch, daniel carl olson, catholic biblical quarterly, 59.3, 1997, pages 492-510, issn: 0008-7912.

if someone is able to locate a copy, you will find my email address at:.

Odrade

Bible: "Those disgusting women, they are revolting, if you touch one you are filthy forever."

Christians: "My religion teaches me to be so respectful of women!"

Mmmmhmmm.

*fap*fap*fap*

8

Gaslighting abuse

by Illuminated in

as a former wt member, would you say the wts intentionally abuses it's members in the form of gaslighting?.

gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted/spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception and sanity.. sociopaths frequently use gaslighting tactics.

sociopaths consistently transgress social mores, break laws, and exploit others, but typically, are also charming and convincing liarswho consistently deny wrongdoing.

Odrade

Absolutely. Date changes where they claim that "some have misunderstood...," "Jehovah's happy people." The ever present 'it's not us, it's you, if you are having trouble it's because you aren't praying hard/studying enough,' etc.

It's a constant twisting of reality to suit their aims. Gaslighting 101.

50

My mother says I should just DA already.

by Julia Orwell in

cut the cord.

sever all ties.

start new.. and she's right.

Odrade

When I was newly out, somebody on this board said: "I am not above using their own stick to beat them with." I immediately adopted the phrase for my own emotional well-being. It changed how I thought about DA'ing.

Ultimately, I never did, because I ended up not really needing it, but I gave myself permission to do it if I needed it. It was definitely on the table for me. 12 years out, I sometimes wish I had done it early on, because I ended up cutting ties after suffering through years of my father preaching to me, until I had a bit of a mental meltdown this year and ended up in counseling. It's possible it would have saved me a lot of grief and time.

DA'ing is more than just making a statement. It can be closure. Your questioning means they don't want you in their club unless you follow all their rules. But even though they don't want you, the unstated reality is they always have an intention to drag you back. You have made the circumstances in your life that they never get the opportunity, but THEY still have that intention. It's like an undercurrent that never stops.

If you are the kind of person who has to book-end your life events, you may need the explicit closure that DA'ing can provide. If you really feel like you can walk away and not need to use/subvert their rules, then it could be that your emotional energy would be better spent in other ways.

You may or may not need it, but you can have it if you want.

39

Trashed WT's found in Dr.s' waiting room Friday. Do you trash literature you find?

by Wasanelder Once in

took the magazines in the waiting room and dumped them in the trash.

was a great feeling.

to think many witnoids wont dare throw out the surplus magazines they have in stacks around the house is amazing.

Odrade

Also, I now refer to the literature almost exclusively as "propaganda material." Makes me feel better to call it what it is.

39

Trashed WT's found in Dr.s' waiting room Friday. Do you trash literature you find?

by Wasanelder Once in

took the magazines in the waiting room and dumped them in the trash.

was a great feeling.

to think many witnoids wont dare throw out the surplus magazines they have in stacks around the house is amazing.

Odrade

Yep, I trash them, usually in the bathroom, because people will dig things out of a paper trash, but not usually out of a bathroom can. If there's no bathroom trash available, I take them home and toss them in the recycle bin.

33

what type of faith do you REALLY want?

by atheist_R_stupid in

i find that when talking people who say they "used to be a jehovah's witness" they say words that show they have in fact, never been one.

it's like a man that worked for the post office for 30 years in a main major urban hub like chicago or new york... and you ask him, "in your last position, what was your rdo?

" and the man says "whats an rdo?".

Odrade

I've made a deliberate effort to discard JW-sanctioned terminology as part of my personal recovery. I say:

"left the watchtower" instead of "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses"

"church" instead of "kingdom hall"

"door-knocking" or "proselytising" or "evangelizing"

"converted" instead of "learned the truth"

"indoctrination" instead of whatever ridiculous explanation for following the FDS is in the latest WT

"propaganda meeting" instead of Congregation Book Study

"recruitment training" instead of Theocratic Ministry School

"tent revival" instead of Circuit Assembly...

See how that works? I refuse to abide by their terminology.

One last point: Independent Thinking is now a badge of honor.

28

A Mind at War

by cappytan in

right now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.

they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".

certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.

Odrade

cappytan, most people arrive at their core beliefs over a lifetime of small decisions. When we leave the JWs, we get a crash-landing in "what do I really think?" It's okay to be confused, and it's okay to believe one thing today and something completely different tomorrow until you get things somewhat sorted. After awhile, you will find you're no longer deciding foundational things, but fine tuning. For right now though, it can feel a little bit like "what's behind door #2?!"

11

Help with an entrenched family memeber

by budbayview in

jw
friends

wanted to send this to my "active" sister in hopes of awakening her, comments welcome.

she thinks i am a heathen apostate.... losing my religion.

preface.

Odrade

It's beautiful. But if she is a devoted supporter of WT, this is going to be way above her paygrade. What you've written is heady stuff, and while it may perfectly express your passion on belief, if your intent is to open the door to discussion with your sister, you need to figure out what HER passion is on belief.

To do that, you need simplicity. Her spiritual maturity level is similar to a toddler who hasn't yet learned to see grey areas or spot lies. You cannot teach a toddler with a treatise, as lovely as it is.

And yet, your simplicity is threaded through the letter, and that is love. So imagine you are having the conversation with a very intelligent child - who if given enough simple ideas, can develop a complex understanding.

8

Did Guy Pierce Disapprove of All These Changes?

by thedepressedsoul in

i have been wondering lately if guy pierce did not approve of all these changes like jw broadcasting, the new jw kingdom halls and the direction that they are currently moving in.

i know that some changes happened while he was alive but a lot of these changes seemed to be pushed right after his death..

for example, jw broadcasting almost sounds like it was rushed out within 2 months.

Odrade

It was almost as if Guy Pierce wasn’t in favor when one or a few really wanted a JW Broadcasting type thing.

Doubtful. Pierce was always really pro-technology. If anything, if he were involved in that project, it might have been held up because he would want them to "get it right," which would probably have included not using such a boring old drone for the roll-out video.

40

Need advice on a comeback to my wife: when she is in cult mode she says faith without works is dead.

by goingthruthemotions in

so i have gotten into arguements with my wife in the past about this cult.

now a days after reading steve hassan books...i just try and avoid anything jdub with her.

try to keep her in authentic mode..(not sure she really has one).

Odrade

I think this is one of the things that keeps JWs locked in. They have absolutely no comprehension of the concept of Grace. They truly believe that they can never be worth of God's love, but at the same time, God expects them to earn his love - the love that they can never be worthy of, even when they are working hard to earn it. Etc, etc, etc. It's the most pernicious example of circular reasoning, and I believe it derails their ability to think critically.

It's not unique to JWs, this subversion of Grace, most of the high control groups teach the same or similar, that you must prove your devotion and earn your salvation. It's quite incompatible with the concepts of Christ-centered christianity, although wholly in line with Pauline Christianity.