WTWizard... do you really think they are not doing that? Maybe not metals but funds, stock, etc. You bet they are. Even if it is just to hedge the cost of international transactions, they need to do something about it. You can't fund activity on foreign countries and then sit down and pray that the currency does not crash, leaving them with a huge hole in their pocket. True, they will ask for more if that happens, but the reality is the money lost is money lost. I am well convinced that they trade the markets to try to maximize profits.. may be this is one good way to siphon money out and pay someone big time. Besides that, I remember they have more than once advices the R&F against entering into especulative markets. You can bet your head that if they are saying you should not do it, then they are doing it for sure.
StarTrekAngel
JoinedPosts by StarTrekAngel
-
16
the Wt Study last Weekend
by thedog1 ini wasn't at the study at the weekend, the reason was family health problems, but even if that had not been the case i wouldn't have been there.
has anybody else who was there or read the article noticed the unbelievable begging bowl being produced for the pioneers and cos and bethelites, etc?
maybe this has been commented on already but in effect witnesses are being asked to financially support, not only pioneers, but circuit overseers if they need medical help, and to fill in with dealing with aged parents if missionaries are abroad.
-
-
-
17
Do you think the GB ever mentions these abuse cases directly?
by thedepressedsoul inthe title says it all, do you think that the gb will ever bring up these cases in their literature or in a talk?
i'm not talking about them just mentioning "persecution" i'm talking about actually bringing up child abuse cases and trying to justify it.. or will it just remain the elephant in the room until years have passed?.
.
-
-
StarTrekAngel
Johnamos...
First of all let me make it clear to you and everyone else that I do not, I repeat, I do not agree with your stand. However, it does prove me right in the sense that I have made the comment in other threads about people like you. Regardless of wether the source of your thinking is indoctrination or total carelessnes, the fact is that this happens folks. I leave in a very conservative community and most people, JW or not, have this very similar reaction to cases like this. Wether they happen inside or outside any religion. Where were the parents?? Backgrounds and etnical upbringing bring different situations to the table. You can not combat this plague with a one-size-fits-all approach.
I don't deny your sincere question Johnamos, but one thing we all need to come to realize is that there is no excuse for such criminal act. The blame on the WTS is not as if parents think that they are responsible for their children, but rather that their policies allow for this to continue to happen and to go unreported. The policies are not correct. I read them and at first view they seem to make sense. However, the WTS has grown extremely legalistic and walks on eggshels when it comes to putting together policies. True, they do not interefere with whomever wants to report the case to the police, but they never assure that if you do, you won't have consequences within the cong. They do say they report it where required. But they don't tell you that they will only report on confirmed cases (under the two witness rule) that they have themselves investigated. If they can't confirm that the party is truly guilty, the won't report. If you do then, you will be judged for accusing your innocent brother in false testimony.
You forget that while child abuse is horrendous regardless and no parent can ever imagine being blamed for this, there is also the trust factor that goes into place first. Usually the perpetrators of child abuse are not doing so by force. They earn the trust of the vitctim. In this case, the entire doctrinal make up of the religion makes and earn the trust of the parents as well. Worst in the case of single parents. So while I do understand the general perception of many, that the parents are the most responsible, many are ignoring the above facts. There has been cases of child abuse in my own family, perpetrated by the very same relatives you entrust them to when you have an emergency, or carried out by slightly older cousins, parents of friends they go to play with, or the like. Children get abused by people they trust!!! get it? Parents should be able to count with peolpe they trust as well. IF they are not worthy of trust, then no one should stand on the way of our common abillity to show them for who they are....
Go to your favorite coffee shop and sip some while you think about this.
-
17
Excusing the JW Child Abuse Scandals.
by Phizzy inmy question is prompted by a post of terry's on his own thread about a parable for jw's.
in that post terry shows how the standard jw response to any report of sex abuse within the borg is to use the "no true scotsman" fallacy.. i.e "he was not a real jw".. my question is for some time in the future, when the true, horrendous, extent of abuse within the borg is public knowledge, and the cognitive dissonance grows for jw's about this being endemic in "god's organization" for so long, how will they excuse it, or explain it, then ?.
how will they push away the obvious conclusion that jehovah must have approved of this going on, or he would have rectified it, not left it to the courts to pick up the broken pieces years later ?.
-
-
StarTrekAngel
Agreed IslandMan. What we are usually grossly overlooking isn't necesarily that there was no CSI back in those days. The point was that the descendants of Abraham where to form a true sovereign nation among the others that existed. When pulled out of Egypt, these Isrealites did not know how to put together a sovereign nation and therfore needed every single rule and principe layed out to them so that they could carry out like the other nations around them. JWs teach that we are currently a spiritual Israel, a spiritual nation. Despite this, we do live under secular government which already form a sovereign nation. There is no need for an indepedent judicial system inside the JW religion. The world has one and the apostles were ok to submitting to them. I would need to witnesses to say that my wife is cheating on me but not for real crimes
-
40
Leave it in Jehovah's Hands - Your thoughts?
by berrygerry inleave it in jehovah's hands.
is there a more disgusting phrase in jw land?.
the abuse, harms, thefts, suicides, family destruction - leave it in jehovah's hands.. why would anyone with a more than 2 neurons say, "oh that makes sense," we do not need to change or intervene in any way.. sooner or later, god will take of things.. .
-
-
StarTrekAngel
Writting down this for my argument... lol. Nicely done.
Waiting on Jehovah or Jehovah knows when or best, is very much the same thing they point fingers at to other religions. When confronted (in field service) with people who have lost a loved one or are undergoing a bad family situation or sickness and their priest have told them that God has wanted it this way or that God knows why he lets this happen, we continuosly tell people that it is wrong for them to portrait God as such an unloving God. Apparently when God forgets to remove an elder who is abusing children, it is ok for us to think that Jehovah knows best.
-
32
How would you respond to this defense made on behalf of The Watchtower's Child Abuse lawsuits?
by adjusted knowledge indetails of the society's child abuse policies have been published in jehovah's witnesses' publications, although more specific guidelines are only made available to elders, or on request.
press releases issued by the watch tower society's office of public information confirm that if a person accused of molestation repeatedly denies the charges of his victim, and there is no other witness to the incident, "the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time", but would report to authorities if required by local laws.
our families jehovahs witnesses and child protection.
-
-
StarTrekAngel
LOL Vidiot. I meant to say it avoided them the more petty lawsuits that could come if they writings weren't legally correct. Has it not saved them from bad publicity to say that shunning is not a policy of the WTBTS?
-
10
Those of you stuck in with kids&question about spouse
by All for show init is killing me now that i am awake, having kids in school and having to be jws.
birthdays, christmas, thanksgiving, having to go home or be left out because their teachers know they are witnesses and/or have kids from the school in their class or grade.
it's a small town so the other jws in the hall know what's going on since their kids are in the same school.
-
-
StarTrekAngel
I would say you have a leg ahead of many. You should count youself blessed if your husband thinks that way. Based on what I read from others, many would wish they were in your situation. Your priority right now should be not to push him further in. Loosen up a bit. He is on the fence. Think about it, if he is on the fence and you try to pull him your way and he decides to let go of your hand. In such struggle, he is guaranteed to fall to the other side. Keep showing him the kind of unconditional love that the elders would want you to give him if he was abusing you (although I could safely asume he is not). Keep asking question. If he questions your questioning, tell him that just like JEsus mentioned, you have to be like a child. The WTBTS would like to present that as being gulligle and manageable. I say there is on trade of children that the WTBTS willingly ignores... children question everything!! so why should you not!
The kids thing also bothered me a lot. More than the holidays, was the idea that they were being exposed to the doctrine without explanation. Then little by little I realized that I was understimating their IQ. Right now, if celebrations come up, I try to soften it by offering a better alternative. But I can see that the questions pop-up in their mind. Soon we will be taking a trip and will be spending about a month with a close relative who is not a JW and will be having a Christmas dinner, wether they like it or not. Family is ok with it. I am sure my relative will be having gifts for them. Nothing like such experience for them to see that there is nothing evil about Christmas. Wether they decide to celebreate it on their own or not, that is another story. I want the decision to be their own, not the GB.
-
32
How would you respond to this defense made on behalf of The Watchtower's Child Abuse lawsuits?
by adjusted knowledge indetails of the society's child abuse policies have been published in jehovah's witnesses' publications, although more specific guidelines are only made available to elders, or on request.
press releases issued by the watch tower society's office of public information confirm that if a person accused of molestation repeatedly denies the charges of his victim, and there is no other witness to the incident, "the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time", but would report to authorities if required by local laws.
our families jehovahs witnesses and child protection.
-
-
StarTrekAngel
The keywords here is that "you have the right to go to the authorities". For sure you do, but that does not mean it won't have consequences for you within the cong. Just like you have the legal right to choose your own medical treatment. What happens after you make that choice is a different story. This is very much the same legalistic approach put forth by the org when asked about shunning policies. Shunning is not an official policy of the WTBTS. The answer is correct, but the question is preemptively stripped of its meaning.
The society will report to authorities where required, that is, once they have confirmed the event thru the two witness rule. Before that, they are not obligated to comply. Member do have ther right to report, that is their constitutional right. But under the light of WTBTS the member will be prosecuted for denouncing something that was not confirmed following WTBTS regulations.
Its all legalism. Put together to avoid more lawsuits and bad publicity.
-
12
Wasn't a letter about the NGO situation read at the Hall?
by Apognophos inokay, so i've been seeing the occasional comment here and there on the forum that some jws, even elders, do not seem to have heard about the society ever being an ngo.
am i not remembering accurately?
back when this scandal happened (2001?
-
-
StarTrekAngel
I would not doubt that most of those who read the letter are no longer around and those who had no authority at the time, did not pay enough attention or were not in a cong that was informed of the issue. Once presented with the new opportunities (like becoming and elder) I can see many issues being put aside. In the case of the spanish cong, I doubt the letter was ever read.
-
9
do jws even read and absorb mathew ch 5 and 6 ?
by sowhatnow ini mean its says right in there not to pray in public, or babble on, how many 10 minuet long babbling prayers have you endured ??.
where in the bible does it tell us anyone prayed for a large group of people publicly, or even in front of the family at their homes?.
it says in vs 14 to be forgiving, how can disfellowshipping someone be forgiving?
-
-
StarTrekAngel
This was another funny point made by tight pants tony. Remember he claimed it would be very sad for us parents if our kids could guess what we were about to say in our prayers. The funny thing is that I could guess what he was about to say regarding thights pants. The internet is plastered with videos of him repeating the same phrases at different talks.
-
19
A LETTER FROM MY MOTHER...since learning TTATT
by Blackfalcon98 inso ive recently: joined the forum, read cofc, began reading combating cult mind control.....and today i gotta letter from my mother.
i thought i'd share it with others so that i can gain some hidden insight, and perhaps just to encourage someone else here who has relatives who are still mentally locked in.
dear blackfalcon98.
-
-
StarTrekAngel
Funny. Not too long ago I went to jw-archive.org and saw someone posting about Coco Rocha and her life as a modeling JW. I went on and asked if anyone here thought it was ok for her to go on field service. Everyone seemed confused as to why I would ask such a question. I pointed out at the 1000's of pictures of her you can find in google, were she helps promotes this wordly fashion, probably designed by gays. She looks like a zombie and like many models, looks like she has not eaten in weeks. Apparently this is not inappropiate, not only for a JW, but also not unapropiate for FS. Everyone attacked me for critiziing her. I pointed out that I was told to remove my goatte before the elders allowed to enter the Ministry School (shortly after my first study) and everyone agreed that it was wrong for the elders to demand such thing. Did I go to the wrong site?