SECRECY, Pros and Cons...UBM's, I'm asking you

by jgnat 63 Replies latest social relationships

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    "Unbelieving Mates" (UBM's), this is for you. I'm compiling a tips sheet for brand-new UBM's to help them deal with the stresses and strains of being in a religiously mixed marriage. Help me out by giving me your experience, both good and bad, about SECRECY. I don't want to skew the results, so I'll give my own experience at the end.

    1. Are you open with your partner about your participation on this board?
    2. Do you hide your reference materials from your partner?
    3. Have you had any close calls, and if so, describe them?
    4. If you are secretive about your anti-JW activities, do you plan on coming clean with your partner at some time?
    5. If you do plan on coming clean, when do you anticipate doing so?
    6. If your partner is aware of your anti-JW activity, how do they react?
    7. Any stories to share?

    Thanks!

  • carla
    carla

    1. Are you open with your partner about your participation on this board? he knows I go on boards, but which one? he doesn't know or care. all exjw's are liars you know.
    2. Do you hide your reference materials from your partner? no, but I no longer leave it all out either.
    3. Have you had any close calls, and if so, describe them? met with some people from the hell, very unpleasant.
    4. If you are secretive about your anti-JW activities, do you plan on coming clean with your partner at some time? someday I will, I suppose.
    5. If you do plan on coming clean, when do you anticipate doing so? can't anticipate that at the moment, maybe if/when he leaves?
    6. If your partner is aware of your anti-JW activity, how do they react? he doesn't exactly know, has some idea of something, no idea I have now 'hit' 300 homes with anti literature by myself.
    7. Any stories to share? to new umb's - everybody will say 'don't freak out' , I say, 'now is the time to freak out', get your butt in gear and do whatever you can to show them the false prophecies, etc... if they will agree to meet with any ex jw or minister or cult experts- do it now! Do not think you can do this by yourself. You can't. This is to ubm's who know very little about the org. Also learn all you can, order C of C book yesterday and any other literature. Never, ever allow your children into the hall or alone with other jw's. I will say that losing your temper does not help anything. The loss of your relationship will have no real impact on the new jw, (suffering for jah and all) Get mad, it's better than despair. The loss is incredible. As I have said before it's like having to live with someone who broke up with you and has a new fling going on or something. There will be 'shades' of the old person and if you can draw out the old person as much as possible it will make life more pleasant. I have no ethical problems with 'arranging' things if at all possible on meeting nights or if things coming up feeling happy they are missing a meeting. The emotions of ubm's can range from despair, depression, rage, indifference, to how much longer?, moments of hope, moments of no hope, and anything in between all of those. I do feel a responsibility to let others know the damage this cult does. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

    Thanks!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Thank you so much, carla. I think you expressed the range of emotions for the UBM very well.

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises

    Great questions JGNAT!

    1. Are you open with your partner about your participation on this board? No Way! To do so in my opinion would violate trust. Furthermore, it would allow my jw to gain insights into my connivings.
    2. Do you hide your reference materials from your partner? Absolutely. Trust again.
    3. Have you had any close calls, and if so, describe them? I cleaned up an old account that she knew I usedem with ubm emails. One day I was opening it up and she walked up. It should have been ok, but I took a deep breath before the inbox opened. Luckily there were no ubm emails!
    4. If you are secretive about your anti-JW activities, do you plan on coming clean with your partner at some time? I doubt I ever will completely. I could see doing this only after she were out... way out.
    5. If you do plan on coming clean, when do you anticipate doing so? When she is out.
    6. If your partner is aware of your anti-JW activity, how do they react? When I read apostate books openly in the past, it became a big scandal in the hall, and made everyone uncomfortable.
    7. Any stories to share?

    I guess my summary of advice on this would contain two basic premises. First of all, to assist your loved one in gaining a new perspective you have to have their trust. THis is step one. Without this, there is no step 2, 3, 4, 5...9487373. Now you can say you are only trying to get a second opinoin, but then anything you mention will automatically be suspect. Apostate books are written by Satan in their eyes. This all then speaks to the need for some level of secrecy. You can't overtly say that you are trying to help steer them out of the org and expect them to trust you in any way.

    On the other hand I am a firm beleiver in honesty. We have to be honest with ourselves, and anytime we engage in deciet even by omission, we take up a burden that has to be maintained at all times! I would recommend therefore, to make the level of secrecy to a minimum. I therefore have cultivated a personality that is acceptable to the witness, but completely truthful and accurate. This is an absoute necessity because you have to have a legitmate reason for NOT being a jw. To the jw, their paradigm is God's paradigm. To not believe it out of ignorance is acceptable because ignorance can be changed. To reject it is to reject God. To reject God is to embrace Satan. To embrace Satan is to become the enemy. Make your life easier. Embrace ignorance.

    My persona is this: I am only interested in truth. Whatever the truth is, I will accept it. If the jw are right, their teachings will withstand any scrutiny, and I will be forced to accept it. I am a Christian because I have faith in my salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I don't see any scriptural account of salvation, or a specific statement that stipulates that joining a certain group of imperfect people is a requirement of salvation. I therefore simply see no reason why I need to be a witness. I never criticize the witnesses or even say they are wrong. I only say I don't agree with this or that. I am completely open and interested in anything they have to say. I go to their meetings. I study with them. I befriend them. But I doggedly insist that I only will follow my own conscience.

    This is completely honest, it is a completely fair and scripturally irrefuteable position. Furthermore it puts the witness in the uncomfortable position of trying to show you that despite the fact there is no requirement to be a jw, it is nevertheless something you "just have to do". They will attempt to show it is required, but it is pure sophistry, and so far easily refuted.

    The most honest thing though, is to be honest about your emotions. You are likely going to be hurt or angry by your experiences with a jw loved one. You do need to make those feelings known or they will fester into resentment and rage. If you develop these sorts of feelings, any efforts to help the jw will be hamstrung. So by all means, discuss your feelings. Just be very careful to focus your discussions on the individual jw, do not let the org become the focus.

    Caveat: If children are involved the matter is much more complicated!

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Thank you, C_Y_P, you've given me a lot to digest.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    C_Y_P, your reply brings to mind one of my favorite commercials, where hubby stumbles on a wowsers website, and is instantly mesmerised. Then he hears his wife coming down the stairs. Desperately, he pounds on the keyboard, trying to remove those condemning images from the screen, no luck....wife comes up, he grabs the monitor smashes it down on the keyboard...wife looks puzzled. Hubby is rolling eyes and humming a random tune...

    What are they selling? Laptops! HAHAHAHHA

  • carla
    carla

    I agree with most of what you say CYP, except for the trust issue. In my case they outright taught him to lie to me and that it was ok because he was doing it for jehovah, that made it ok. They will never fully trust you (the ubm) in certain matters because every week at the hell they are told we are full of satan, or satan is using their spouse to undermine their faith. I believe he would believe a jw over me any day. I once told him that if I ever had a terminal illness I wouldn't even tell him, oddly this did not appear to phase him all that much. If my spouse (of old) told me something like that I would be crushed. The reason I wouldn't tell him because I have been told by other exjw's that the hell would probably just pray for my death. Like I would need that?! Today, as of this moment, I'm still not sure I would tell him. I don't trust him. He has left me 'alone' to deal with far to many issues in our life that he should have been there for, that he promised he would be. Simply because you are physically in a house doesn't mean that your are really there for your loved ones. The loss of his memory really pisses me off. Whether he is not allowed to remember, or can't, or won't because anything prejw was evil I don't know. But then what has my entire married life been? Apparently not worth remembering.

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises

    I know what you mean Carla.

    It is such a painful thing. In a way, you almost have to experience it to understand. I remember way back in the days when they first showed up. I saw red flags, but when I sniffed around I saw all this stuff that just seemed over the top. They described these awful people and how they ruined families. It just didn't square with what I saw in these nice folks.

    I think one of the things folks like us really need to perfect is the way we warn people about the org. It is really important to let them tell you what bothers them, and then bring up possible related issues they might not have considered. When we come at them screaming bloody murder (oops we are supposed to abstain from blood) about how awful they are, it makes us seem unhinged.

    I just didn't see it coming though. And my wife just thinks it is me. I think most ubm's consider joining another cult, just to spite their jw spouse and put them through the same experiences. I think I would make an awesome branch davidian. I have excellent marksmanship. If it wasn't for the kids, and the additional damage it would do seeing both their folks go off the deep end, I would do it in a second.

    The kids. The weak spot for the ubm. I for one did not work my whole life to build the means to provide all I never had for my children, only to have them filled with mind control garbage and be enslaved by a publishing company. It is hard for me not to get downright murderous when my kids are threatened.

    CYP

  • TD
    TD

    Hi Jgnat!

    1. Are you open with your partner about your participation on this board?

    Yes

    2. Do you hide your reference materials from your partner?

    Yes and No. I don't "hide" anything, but I don't leave publications that would make her uncomfortable laying around for her fellow JW's to see.

    3. Have you had any close calls, and if so, describe them?

    N/A

    4. If you are secretive about your anti-JW activities, do you plan on coming clean with your partner at some time?

    I don't have any problem if someone wants to be a JW and I'm certainly not looking for the demise of the JW religion, so I'm not sure if anti-JW is an applicable term as I see it. My problem is simply the fact that most JW's spend their entire lives stumbling around, swaddled like mummies in layer after layer of bad information and outright falsehoods. If someone wants to be a JW after the bandages are removed; Fine.

    5. If you do plan on coming clean, when do you anticipate doing so?

    N/A

    6. If your partner is aware of your anti-JW activity, how do they react?

    She's aware of my pro-information activity. She reacts like a JW, (Fancy that!) rationalizing things if possible and ignoring the rest.

    7. Any stories to share?

    Well there was the time years ago (c. '96) when I was helping out as a moderator of the old H2O board. Some idiot was posting really hard-core porn using another participant's handle. My wife walked up behind me right as I was opening one of the offending posts. She said, "So....what exactly is this H2O thing anyway? No wonder you spend so much time at your computer."

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    LOL TD. I see my "open ended" question is going to end up being my favorite.

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