Of Late Many Here Seem To Be Preaching Aethiesm.. (page 10)

daystar

Marsh

Hi!

God's existence is assumed,self-evident.

Not really so much.

If there is no God,no creator who sets rules,then we are set adrift morally.

Precisely. Sort of like when we leave our parents' nest and then must fend for ourselves.

We all know how many millions suffered and lost their lives because of this atheistic way of thinking,yep I know about the 'crusades' and atrocities committed by supposed Christians. But were these ones being consistent with their own standard of morality?'do not murder' love your enemies'God is Love..such love is self-sacrificing.

You were speaking of Hitler here. Just as he has been claimed to have misunderstood Nietzche, so too have many, many taken the Bible to support their own ends, including genocide, etc. This does not, in itself, make the bible "bad", nor does it make Nietzche, or, as you suggest, atheism, "bad".

The message of the Bible mends lives broken by sin,which separates us from our Holy Creator.In contrast,agnosticism and atheism.like all God philosophies.destroy.

The messages of the bible may be used by people for many purposes, including healing, murder, creation, destruction... In contrast agnosticism and atheism destroys? You are using one single example, Hitler, to support the idea that atheistic philosophies destroy? Rather disingenious. I can submit many, many, many more religious philosophies which have contributed much, much more to destruction than has any atheistic philosophies.

googlemagoogle

U.S. "atheists" frequently assume that the Hebrew God of the Bible is the only God a theist can believe in. How many things that that "run counter to?"

so do U.S. christian fundies.

every exclusive religion denies the existence of other gods. thus any follower of an exclusive religion is a millionfold atheist. atheists only believe in one (or three) god(s) less than most christians.

AlmostAtheist

What I fing odd is that those who were witnesses when they were in, had a genuine love for God but when they left the society they grew a strong hate for God as if it were Gods fault that they themselves were deceived.

I know some have become angry with their god over the lies of the Watchtower. This is probably due to confusion between a manmade organization and the god they worship in conjunction with that organization. JW's tie those two things together so completely that getting angry with one would almost naturally mean getting angry with the other.

But I would disagree that those that become atheists are "angry" or "hate god". The truth is, they don't believe he exists. It's like getting mad at the tooth fairy or the boogeyman.

You might see posts along the lines of "the god of the Bible is a jerk". They aren't really saying there's a god out there, and he's a jerk. They are saying that IF there was really a god that acted like the one described in the Bible, THEN he would be a jerk. In truth, they are only pointing out why they consider belief in his existence to be an absurdity.

Please don't be offended by our belief that your god doesn't exist, or even that such a belief is absurd in the face of the facts. Honest people can be given the same set of facts and disagree about their interpretation. We apparently disagree on this one, but we can still help each other. And as LittleToe pointed out, we probably agree on much more than we disagree.

(Though I agree that tact and consideration for the beliefs of others should keep posts civil and useful.)

Dave

LittleToe

Gumby:
Stop bogarting!!!

Anyhow, you might not understand James, but at least he has the common decency to take the effort to read well, not like Tetrabod and his infamous wannabe

Gawd I love stirring up hornets' nests

~skins up, coz nuttin stops people preachin like a doobie... what were we talking about again?~

LittleToe

Dave:

We apparently disagree on this one, but we can still help each other. And as LittleToe pointed out, we probably agree on much more than we disagree.

And most of the time get on and enjoy each others' company, too

marsh

Hi,

Oh I see a post has been made about Faith,yes,great to have faith ,I am so grateful to Ray Franz for writing his book In Search Of Christian Freedom, I know of a lady who was a JW for around 48 years she read one book,this one and left the WT and is now a Christian Believer.Chapter 17 The Challenge Of Christian Freedom.2 Cor: 3:17.RSV Where the Spirit of the Lord is,there is freedom.John 8:31 ,If you continue in my word,you are truly my disciples,and you will know the truth,and the truth will make you free....if the Son of man makes you free,you will be free indeed.

Ray says:Followers of God's Son should be lovers of the freedom He gives,should cherish it,defend it,sacrifice whatever is necessary to retain it.That freedom is more than political freedom.It frees us from the frustration brought by enslavement to decadence,from the sense of guilt before God,from the fear of death and from the fear of man or devil,for it carries with it the hope "to be freed from the shackles of mortality and enter upon the liberty and splendour of the children of God"It is also the freedom to be the person we truly desire to be,strive to be.a person who reflects the life of the One each of us follows,though expressed individually as the unique personalities we are.

BIOLOGY .(dead people do not come back to life)

Galatians1:1 I Paul,an apostle,(not of men,neither by man,but by Jesus Christ,and God The Father,who raised Him from the dead"

John 2:19-21.."destroy this temple and I will raise it up...but he spoke of the temple of His body"

Romans 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you.."

Miracles.Acts 19: 11-12 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of paul.12,so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick,and the diseases left and the evil spirits went out of them

1 Corinthians 12 Spiritual gifts.

Genetics,Geography,Maths,Physics if you want to, can look here www.answersingenesis.org

Seven Cs of history and Miracles and the Laws of Nature Dr: Carl Wieland .

Most 'primitive' tribes still have a memory,in their folklore and religion,of the fact that their ancestors turned away from the living God,the creator.All tribes and nations are descendents of Noah's family.There was technology enough to build a boat the size of an Ocean Liner.

The dispersion at Babel broke up a large interbreeding group into small inbreeding groups.This ensured that the resultant groups would have different mixes of genes for various physical features.By itself,this dispersion would ensure,in a short time,that there would be certain fixed differences in some of these groups,commonly called 'races' In addition,the selection pressure of the environment would modify the existing combination of genes so that the physical characteristics of each group would tend to suit their environment. There has been no simple to complex evolution of any genes,for the genes were present already.

There is a good book I am told from AIG, ONE BLOOD I will buy this.Are black people a result of a curse on Ham?The belief that the skin colour of black people is a result of a curse on Ham and his descendents is nowhere taught in the Bible.Further is was not Ham who cursed but his son CanaanGen 9:18,25,10;6,

something else of interest Did Adam have a belly button?

AlmostAtheist

There was technology enough to build a boat the size of an Ocean Liner.

Are you certain of this? How would you support that statement?

I can believe they could build a big box, but building a water-tight boat the size of a football field is not a layman's job. It was still a challenge 3,000 years later.

Dave

zen nudist

for those who believe and those who do not believe there is one common goal still --the search for truth.

and when there is no verifiable answer "I don't know" is still an honest answer.

religion teaches people to have faith and believe, it does not teach them to lie and pretend to know or misrepresent faith and belief as facts.

atheists disbelieve in god because they find no facts nor reasons to hold such a belief, but if they found some, the honest ones would at least become agnostic.

there is no valid reason any one can give me for why a real and true, honest and sane being would ever desire me to lie to myself in order to be pleasing to him or her and I would expect nothing less from any real god[s] that may care about my view of them.

Golf

AlmostAtheist, "If I say the invisible influence of Teragod over my life is what makes me whole and happy, does it make it true?" Yes to YOU it would, providing you believe in it. People believe in the weirdest things.

In golf when a person selects a club to execute his shot, he believes he selected the right club. Only when he underclubs or overclubs will he find out if it was the right club. If people believe in God that's fine, if not, that's also fine.

Golf

JamesThomas

James, I still can't understand ya.If you could somehow describe/convey what you actually believe in as well as you converse in everyday speech, I might be one of the ones who see it as you do...or at least understand you.

Dear Gumster, I'm doing my best. However, I am not a teacher or guide. Just pointing to something that can not be seen, is not a thing, yet sparkles from the pools of your eyes, and can be felt within the still presence of a tree.

Contemplate for a moment what would be present even if all physical sensations stopped, and all memory was erased. Look at what is here when there is not even the idea of personal identity, existence, God, or other. What is here when there is no thing?

There is right now a vast untouched and pristine Awareness within you that your believed life-story unfolds from and within. How deep does this Vastness go? and, is there anything closer or more intimately you? What sees all the thoughts and story? Is IT, part of the story? Who/what, are you, really?

I can't "describe/convey" what all descriptions and conveyances happen within; That, which all, truly IS.

j

Of Late Many Here Seem To Be Preaching Aethiesm..

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