The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims? (page 2)

Star Moore

Good evening to you, Honesty,

According to John 1:14 and Hebrews 1:8, who is Jesus?
Do you believe, as the JW's do, that Jesus is a god?

John 1:14 NIV "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 1:18 NIV "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the father's side, has

made him known."

So, noone has seen God (they've seen Jesus) so he must not be God..but a god, who is at the father's side who has made him know to us as the Word...

Heb. 1:8 NIV But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, you God has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

Okay, Honesty, so remember we are going from Greek to English. So God is Jesus' throne and he will sit at his right hand, right there as co-ruler for ever. Notice how Jesus was anointed and made to be higher than the angels because he was so faithful..sound like he is God....NOT>>>>>

Yes, Jesus is a god...

GodisRight

Honesty the Israelites are acient race. It was common for them to say I am. Jesus was not the only person who said I am. Moses also said here I am. And Abraham also would speak like that. He also would say here I am. "I am" was a common phrase spoken out of the mouth of many of the popular people mentioned in the bible. It seems to me that the phrase "I am" was part everyday language used by normal everyday Israelites.

Secondly, the trinity doctrine is false even if Jesus and Yahweh were the same person. The holy spirit is definately not God. I was just the reading the bible today in the book of numbers. God took part of the holy spirit off of Mose and put some of it on 70 elderly men to help Mose manage control over Israel. Jesus himself said that he performed his miracles "by the finger of God." Likewise, when Moses were performing miracles in Egypt, the magic practicing priest who could not dupilcate the more powerful acts conducted by Moses, told the pharaoh that it was by the "finger of God" that brought the plagues upon them.

Honesty, one thing you have to look at is this. The Holy Spirit in not called God even once through out entire bible which consist over a thousand pages. That should send a huge reg flag to trinitarians.

Now consider this; when the Isrealites spoke against Moses, Moses told them that it is really God that they were insulting. And indeed everytime the isrealites insulted Moses, God considered as an attack against him. Now remember what Jesus said about his return and the goats along with the sheep. He told the Goats that he was naked, but they did not cloth him. He was hungry, but they give him nothing to eat. But the goats said to him when did they ever see him starving or naked? Jesus reply that whatever they did or didn't do to his sheep, they really doing or weren't doing to him.

So, now back to the holy spirit. The apostle tells the man that he has proved false to the holy spirit. Then apostle told him that it is God that he has sinned against. In the bible what ever sin is comitted against God servants is also considered to be attack on God himself.

Bottomline is that trinitarians have taken some scriptures way out of context.

stillajwexelder

Stilla's comment certainly shows a lack of understanding of the Trinity teaching, a misunderstanding based on the false information provided in the Watchtower.

I have spent my entire life trying to understand the Trinity. The WTS + Judaism and Islam are the only ones that come close. I became a JW because of the Trinity. The Trinity is the most obnoxious, stupid, illogical doctrine around. I have studied Arius and many others, Read Trinitarian books and countless threads on this board about it - I am more convinced than ever that if there is an almighty God he is not one that is on the One Hand Jehovah, on the other Jesus and also the Holy Spirit. Isis , Osiris and Horus are but one God - so what -nop wonder so few Muslims become Christain whilst ever this Totally stupid Doctrine holds sway.

ObservingTexan

So, noone has seen God (they've seen Jesus) so he must not be God..but a god, who is at the father's side who has made him know to us as the Word... ;

No one has ever seen God the Father... plenty have seen God the Son. If find it quite unusual that the only translation of the bible that mistranslates John 1:1 is the JW version. Of course, it's common knowledge that the JW version was translated by none other than uneducated, non-bibical language experts. They had to mistranslate this verse to "fit" their doctrine. "The Word was God" can't be translated any other way. You can not find any Greek bibical language expert that will agree with the JW version. Couple that with John 1:14 and it's clear that Jesus was God in the flesh... God the Son. It really can't get any simplier especially when one examines the other verses throughout the bible.

Honesty

John 1:14 NIV "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 1:18 NIV "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the father's side, has
made him known."
So, noone has seen God (they've seen Jesus) so he must not be God..but a god, who is at the father's side who has made him know to us as the Word...
Heb. 1:8 NIV But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, you God has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."
Okay, Honesty, so remember we are going from Greek to English. So God is Jesus' throne and he will sit at his right hand, right there as co-ruler for ever. Notice how Jesus was anointed and made to be higher than the angels because he was so faithful..sound like he is God....NOT>>>>>
Yes, Jesus is a god...

The concept of having two Gods always bothered me as a JW. Altough, it is understandable how the concept of one God composed of three persons can be foreign to human thought.

Do you think we will ever know?

SickofLies

Do you think we will ever know?

Yes! The truth is out there! See it for yourself!

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_01

Honesty

Do you think we will ever know?

Yes! The truth is out there! See it for yourself!
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_01

That's interesting. Was the dude that said the following truthful, lying, delusional or just a complete idiot?

I am in them and You are in Me.

May they be made completely one,

so the world may know You have sent Me

and have loved them as You have loved Me.

Father,

I desire those You have given Me

to be with Me where I am.

Then they will see My glory,

which You have given Me

because You loved Me before the world’s foundation.

John 17:23-24

Chap

Didn't mean to scrunch this post. I reposted with a different format.

jwfacts

Man can never know to mind of God, or truly understand the nature of God. We can appreciate the things we do not understand in the world around us, just as we can appreciate our Creator whilst appreciating that are minds will never make sence of him.

Chap

Genesis 1:26 (KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 3:22 (KJV)
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 11:5-7 (KJV)
And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. [6] And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. [7] Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

I understand that in the original language, the word for Lord in these verses has a singular-plural meaning. If this is translated correctly, there would be room for a "God-Man" in a Jew's way of thinking if he was following the law and was thinking about what it meant while worshipping God. The New American Standard Version capitalizes: "Us" in these verses and "Our" in Genesis 1:26. I do not put much stock in the NWT but am curious as to how it reads in these verses.

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

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