The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty 146 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mdb
    mdb
    You see this is the exact promblem with the trinity doctrine. To prove it you have to play the connect the dots game. If the trinity doctrine was true, why isn't there simply one verse in the bible that says Jehovah, Jesus, and and the holy spirit are God. Rather, to prove the trinity doctrine, one has to stretch the interpretation a scripture and skip back and forth across the bible to connect one scripture to another. Then one has to explain away several verses that contradictst their teaching.

    Yet, as the original post shows you, there are passages that individually say the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God (and Lord). And the Scriptures say there is only one God and that there is no other God but Him.

    For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
    1 Cor 8:5,6

    So, in 1 Cor 8:5,6 it says there is only on God (the Father) and one Lord (Jesus Christ). As a JW, would you agree that if there is only one Lord, and His name is Jesus Christ, that God the Father cannot be Lord? I doubt it. The Scriptures say that God (yhwh) is Lord, but here the word says that Jesus Christ is Lord and that there is only one. That poses a problem if you do not believe that Jesus Christ is who He claimed to be - God.

  • mdb
    mdb

    just2sheep,

    what version of the bible did you find the scripture from isaiah? i am looking at isaiah 9:6-7 in the new king james version and it reads in verse 6-"...and his name will be called wonderful, counseler, mighty god, everlasting father, prince of peace." the the isn't there.

    The KJV has "The Mighty God" in this verse. The original Hebrew is gibowr (the Mighty) el (God).

    If you don't agree with the insertion of the article "the", it doesn't really matter because the Messiah is still called "mighty God". There is only one true God and if Jesus was not the true God, yet claimed to be, He lied (sinned) and did not save us from our sins because the sacrifice was tainted - not without blemmish. Thankfully, He did save us from our sins and He is who He claimed to be.

  • GodisRight
    GodisRight

    To the trinity believers. Let me ask you just 3 questions. Does the bible ever say that Jesus was lower than the angels? Do you think God would ever humble himself in to a position lower than his creation? Can God be tested?

  • GodisRight
    GodisRight
    So, in 1 Cor 8:5,6 it says there is only on God (the Father) and one Lord (Jesus Christ). As a JW, would you agree that if there is only one Lord, and His name is Jesus Christ, that God the Father cannot be Lord? I doubt it. The Scriptures say that God (yhwh) is Lord, but here the word says that Jesus Christ is Lord and that there is only one. That poses a problem if you do not believe that Jesus Christ is who He claimed to be - God.

    This is really dirty. Just because someone does not agree with you -- that does not make that person a Jehovah Witness.

  • GodisRight
    GodisRight

    WAS JESUS REALLY TEMPTED?

    By Juan Baixeras

    Of course he was. We are all familiar with the temptation of Jesus, but have most of us noticed how the temptation of Jesus makes the trinity an absurd impossibility. Let’s take a look at it in depth.

    Matthew 4:1

    "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil."

    James 1:13

    "For God cannot be tempted by evil."

    First, we see that Jesus is led by the Spirit into the desert. The Doctrine of the Trinity says that the three persons of the trinity are equal. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same being and are equal, why does Jesus have to be led into the desert? Does the Spirit know something that Jesus does not?

    Secondly, we see the most obvious, Jesus is tempted, yet James clearly says that God cannot be tempted. So is James a liar, or are the man made creeds in error?

    Mattew 4:5

    "If you are the Son of God throw yourself down, For it is written: He will command His angels concerning you, and with their hands they will support you...Jesus answered him, Again it is written, You shall not put the Lord, your God to the test."

    Notice that the devil calls him the Son of God not God. Satan knows God (read Job 1:6) yet he does not address Jesus as God but as the Son of God. Then Satan talks to Jesus about how God will save him if he jumps down. Jesus replies by saying, "You shall not put the Lord, your God to the test." Do you really believe that Jesus is referring to himself?

    Matthew 4:8-11

    "Then the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, and he said to him, All these I will give to you if you will prostrate yourself and worship me." At this Jesus said to him, "Get away Satan! It is written: The Lord, your God, shall you worship and Him alone shall you serve."

    Why would the devil offer God things that are already His? Psalm 24:1 says:

    "The earth is the LORD's and all it holds, the world and those who live there."

    Even harder to believe is the idea that the devil really expected God to worship him so that he could give God what is His already. This is ridiculous. Then Jesus replies by saying, "The Lord, your God, shall you worship and Him alone shall you serve." Can you honestly read this and believe that Jesus is talking about himself?

    The temptation episode is written to show us how Jesus put his faith in God in front of everything, especially the desires of the flesh (i.e. hunger, power). It shows us that it is possible to live a life in perfect accordance to God’s will. He is our role model. This is why he was made just like us. The Bible says that he was made like us in every way. Hebrews 2:17 says:

    "For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God."

    (above) Jesus is going to serve God? I thought he was God? Back to Hebrews, Jesus is made in every way like his brothers. Well, then either Jesus is not God but His anointed, or I am God also.

    If Jesus is God, then this whole temptation episode is a farce. God cannot expect me to live up to Jesus' standards like the Bible says I should when I am not a Godman like Jesus. The whole purpose of this episode was for Jesus to set the standard, the example of faith and conduct for us to follow. If it takes being God to accomplish this then why even bother?

    The creeds say that Jesus was tempted but cannot sin. If you cannot sin, are you really being tempted? The dual nature idea does not remedy the problem either because the Chalcedon Creed which is the one that says that Jesus is fully God and fully man also says that the dual natures are not separable, they are indivisible, united at all times. By the way, this idea of dual natures is called Dualism and it comes from Greek philosophy.

    Dualism - The view that reality may be divided into two essential forces. There are two forms of this understanding. From a cosmic perspective, the world struggles between two opposing forces - typically, one of evil and one of good. From a philosophical approach, the essence of a person is divided between two incompatible natures - that of the body and that of the soul. Early Christianity incorporated both views from those religions and philosophies with which it came in contact. This is the same concept used not only in Greek philosophy, but also in Greek mythology. Hercules is the son of Zeus and the mortal Alcmene. He had a dual nature, he was a man that had supernatural strength which he had inherited from his father Zeus. The Pharaohs were godmen and so were the Caesars. The Bible even provides us with an example of this belief in Acts 14:11 when God healed a crippled man through Paul and Barnabas:

    "When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in Lycaonian, "The gods have come down to us in human form."

    This idea of gods coming in human form was very prevalent throughout the Roman-Greco world. This is why it was so natural for people educated in Greek philosophies to incorporate this idea into Christianity.

    Please read the Bible without injecting meanings that were never intended by its author.

    God bless you, and may He always show you the way.

  • Kristofer
    Kristofer

    I'm suprised about the careless browsing over of the words "SON OF". Do you not know what is being claimed by being the "SON OF" GOD. In ancient times, to say you were the SON OF something, meant to be a declaration of your nature. It would give people of other tribes and nations knowledge of your character. Not to offend anyone, but God doesn't have a penis. He didn't have a son like human beings would. If God would be a compared to a Fire, then Jesus would be the flame. You can separate the flame from the fire, but it is essential the same essence as the fire. Simply put, Jesus is the manifestation of God. He is who makes GOD knowable to us.

    Consider:

    1 Tim 3:16 "God was manifest in the flesh" (taken from a hymn of early Christians, older than the written Scriptures).

    John 10:33: For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

    It was clear to the Jews that Jesus was claiming he was God. Is Jesus a liar?

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Kristopher...

    John 10:33: For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

    It was clear to the Jews that Jesus was claiming he was God. Is Jesus a liar?

    If you to John 10:36 it says.. "do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, "You blaspheme," because I said, I am God's Son? If I am not doing the works of my Father, do not believe me." So all Jesus was saying was that he was God's son, not God.. and they were then assuming he was making himself God. Remember they also said he was a drunkard, glutton, and demonised...

  • Kristofer
    Kristofer

    what about 1 Timothy?

  • amac
    amac

    God is only 6 years old (in God years) and he has been grounded to his room for the last two weeks for the mess he made on Earth. That is just as "conceivable" as the Trinity doctrine or the bible in general. If God is a trinity...he obviously did not care if humans knew it or not. This is made obvious by the convoluted mess called the Bible.

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Good day, Kristopher...Here is the I Tim 3:16 is other versions..

    NIV "He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations."

    NWT "He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations.."

    KJV "God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

    The Emphatic Diaglott (Vatican Manuscript)

    "Who was manifested in flesh, was justified in spirit, was seen by messenger, was prclaimed among natin, was believed among a world, was taken up in glory"

    Kris, seems to be a mistranslation of the KJ's bible...The 'he' appears to be Jesus, instead of God, to me... Star

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