The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?
by Honesty 146 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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GodisRight
John 1:14 NIV "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
The concept of having two Gods always bothered me as a JW. Altough, it is understandable how the concept of one God composed of three persons can be foreign to human thought.John 1:18 NIV "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the father's side, has
made him known."
So, noone has seen God (they've seen Jesus) so he must not be God..but a god, who is at the father's side who has made him know to us as the Word...
Heb. 1:8 NIV But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, you God has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."
Okay, Honesty, so remember we are going from Greek to English. So God is Jesus' throne and he will sit at his right hand, right there as co-ruler for ever. Notice how Jesus was anointed and made to be higher than the angels because he was so faithful..sound like he is God....NOT>>>>>
Yes, Jesus is a god...
Do you think we will ever know?
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood [ a ] it.
John chapter one is symbolic, not literal. Jesus is not literally a word and nor is he literally light that shines in the darkness. You should all be careful about taking a verse literally that is wrapped around in a symbolical context. Keep in mind that Moses was as God to his brother Aaron and Aaron was a prophet to him. Moses was even God to Pharoah. Jesus was exalted higher than Moses. This is why Jesus is God to us also:
Exodus 4:16-17 (New King James Version) 16 So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God. 17 And you shall take this rod in your hand, with which you shall do the signs.”
Exodus 7 1 So the LORD said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh , and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
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Chap
John 1 should be taken literally because that is clearly how it is stated. The passages in Exodus are similes.
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moggy lover
The problem that Christians have when confronted by the JWs on this teaching, is that as the JWs themselves point out, there is no explicit teaching of the Trinity in the Bible. The JWs then wrongly conclude that because so-called "pagans" believed a teaching remotely descriptive of it, it therefore must be of ''pagan ORIGIN" We can with equal validity conclude that because these "Pagans" believed in the flood, that the flood must also be a teaching with a pagan origin. Indulgence never determines origin, and when the WTS asserts this, they merely indicate their own lack of scholarship.
The point is that no doctrine is explicitly taught in Scripture. This is because the thrust of Biblical teaching is to encourage personal investigation, so doctrine is tightly bound up in statements implicity imbedded in the Bible and capable only of individual scrutiny and conclusion. Indeed none of the the doctrines so beloved by the WTS is explicitly taught in the Bible, even in their own "Translation". The "last generation" teaching as expounded by the WTS has had to be modified at least on six seperate occasions, thus deceiving six seperate generations, precisely because it is not an explicit Bible teaching. The summation of WTS doctrine is arrived at by simply stitching together randomly collected verses and subjecting these to relentless interpretation.
It is true that the OT does not provide us with an incontroverible clue that affirms the existence of a Triune Deity, nevertheless, nowhere does it actually deny such a teaching which would later develop from the revelation of NT Scripture. The main contribution of the OT to the doctrine is to emphasize the unity of God. God is Himself not a plurality, nor is He one among others [Henotheism] God is revealed in the OT as single and unique. He is not made up of "parts" as if He were a three-in-one entity.
In the fully developed doctrine of the Trinity, arrived at by extensive and incremental study of the NT, especially over the first 4 centuries of the historic Christian Church, the unity of God is safeguarded by insisting that there is only one "essence" or "substance" of God. The Deity of Christ is fully asserted, because of revelation, and the individual existence of the Father and the Holy Spirit is preserved against the notion that these are only modes of God for the various purposes of dealing with man in creation and salvation.
Therefore the Trinity teaches that God is One [never three-in-one] yet Himself , and from all eternity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are three and at the same time one. To deflect any suggestion of a three-in-one Deity, the Trinity explicitly states that there be no ''confounding of the Persons, nor any dividing of the Substance" The Christian admits to the fact the Trinity yeilds to no adequate explanation, and that God inhabits a dimension beyond human reasoning, defying explicability.
When the early Christians, conscious of the clear implication of NT revelation, began their hitherto unexplored quest for the meaning of God, they never once denied the plain assertion of the "Sheema" of Lev 6:6, they merely extended its meaning and further developed it. Perhaps in a mysterious verse like Isa 48:16, in a strongly monotheistic context, we have a close approach to trinitarian formulation.
Cheers
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Shazard
>John chapter one is symbolic, not literal.
Why? Because you can't believe what it says? Compare Rev 21:23 with Isa 60:19 -
Hellrider
I understand that in the original language, the word for Lord in these verses has a singular-plural meaning. If this is translated correctly, there would be room for a "God-Man" in a Jew's way of thinking if he was following the law and was thinking about what it meant while worshipping God.
Chap: I think it`s ok to interpret this into a "trinitarian" doctrine, but historically, the plural here refers to all the other Gods who are gods as well as yhwh. Yhwh was originally viewed as one of many gods, alongside all the gods mentioned in the Bible that the jws (and the rest of christianity) would refer to as "false gods". Originally, judaism was not a monotheistic religion, yhwh was just one of the sons of El, the highest God (and creator of the world), but he was viewed as the God of Israel. That`s why the command reads "you shall have no other gods before me", not "no other gods exist but me". Later on in judaism, the religion evolved into strict monotheism, and yhwh became the only God. That`s when they stopped using his name (no need for a name, when there is only one of a kind).
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DannyHaszard
Trinity Quandary & Quantum Theory Danny's post on the Trinity
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Star Moore
Good day, Honesty: You were saying: Will we ever know? I know some aspects are really difficult. Like, Who made God? Or, What is a spirit? Was Jesus made of the same substance as God? And are the angels also made of the same substance as God? And what does it mean when it says that Jesus is God's ONLY begotten. I think it means, that Jesus is the only being that God made directly by himself. All others were made through Jesus. I know the angels are said to be spirit, fire and so is God... Maybe, the angels, God, and Jesus are the same nature.. But then too, we are also in their image. So some of these things are very hard and in the new world, it will be opened more for us, I'm sure.
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GodisRight
John chapter one is symbolic, not literal.
Why? Because you can't believe what it says? Compare Rev 21:23 with Isa 60:19You see this is the exact promblem with the trinity doctrine. To prove it you have to play the connect the dots game. If the trinity doctrine was true, why isn't there simply one verse in the bible that says Jehovah, Jesus, and and the holy spirit are God. Rather, to prove the trinity doctrine, one has to stretch the interpretation a scripture and skip back and forth across the bible to connect one scripture to another. Then one has to explain away several verses that contradictst their teaching.
If all of the above is necessary to prove a doctrine correct, then maybe its time to start thinking that perhaps Satan is deceiving you once again.
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Apostate Kate
If one can accept; Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Then it should not be impossible to accept that Jesus is; Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
The WTBTS screwed this up in my head. It really is quite simple. Mary was human, God is God. Jesus was Son of man as he is fully human, and Son of God as he is fully God.
The Greek text is clear on one thing, Jesus was never created. The word for first-born is not the same as for created. Jesus is first-born as in preemminent over all things that ever were.
Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mark 13:19 For <gar> in those <ekeinos> days <hemera> shall be <esomai> affliction <thlipsis>, such <toioutos> as <hoios> was <ginomai> not <ou> from <apo> the beginning <arche> of the creation <ktisis> which <hos> God <theos> created <ktizo> unto <heos> this time <nun>, neither <kai> <ou me> shall be <ginomai>.
ktizw ktizo ktid'-zo
(through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally):--create, Creator, make. [Jesus was never ktizo]
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:29 For <hoti> whom <hos> he did foreknow <proginosko>, he <proorizo> also <kai> did predestinate <proorizo> to be conformed <summorphos> to the image <eikon> of his <autos> Son <huios>, that <eis> he <autos> might be <einai> the firstborn <prototokos> among <en> many <polus> brethren <adelphos>.
prwtotokoV prototokos pro-tot-ok'-os first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):--firstbegotten-born
contracted superlative of 4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance):--before, beginning, best, chief(-est), first (of all), former.
a primary preposition; "fore", i.e. in front of, prior (figuratively, superior) to:--above, ago, before, or ever. In the comparative, it retains the same significations.
Jesus was never made or created. The thing is this; everyone has a choice to believe the Bible is the Word of God or not. What is wrong is continueing to believe the LIEs the Watchtower told us. The LIES about what the Bible really says. The biggest lie that they told me was that Jesus was an angel, I could not worship an angel, talk to an angel, have a personal relationship with an angel, yet this angel was my; Savior, Mediator, Judge, Friend, Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father! (Isa 9:6)
LIES! More JW LIES! He is not, never was, never will be an angel.