Surely their claim to be God's sole representatives (or god's channel as they call it, a word borrowed from demon contacters) on earth is an audacious lie that could only be contrived by totally unscrupulous and opportunistic deceivers with the intention to illegitimately profit from it.
Their history shows that this claim is a transparent lie. It's just there to give them status and importance in the eyes of their followers and enable them to climb on their backs and control and exploit them.
Newbie question; Why do JW hypocrites PROVE that they're a cult?
by psycsnacha 101 Replies latest jw experiences
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greendawn
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A Paduan
I read with interest the examples of jwism in psycsnacha's writing. as a future physician, a patient's ethics on blood is his/her own. The ethical dilemma is not mine.
- You'll find that to be something more akin to jwism than other 'humans'.
- Well, it's not the end, and what they preach isn't good news.
The criticism of the WTS bible scholarship stems from the fact that the bible is and very old and complex text.
- No - it simply stems from "living according to the flesh", aside from poor scholarship.
when criticizing could we comment also on examples of better behavior/doctrine/belief else where...
- places where they have charities - the list is quite extensive
Because according to the sentiment I'm now getting from this site, it would be better for one serious about bible study to do it solely on his own. Wouldn't this discount the very words of the bible about God spirit providing for teachers to teach/shepard those who don't know about him or are learning?
- No - that's typical flawed reasoning - they'd be better off without jw or other cult teachers
I again say that I genuinely respect the bible, as a book of philosophy,standards, and truth.... and ....while I do endure a bit of guilt when I fall short, it's a noble fight to move my life towards those higher standards.
- For other folk it's not a book of standards - that's the view with works oriented truth - we see a whole other world - a new heaven and a new earth
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jwfacts
You have tried to justify the Watchtower cult behaviour on the basis that is how the bible prescribed behaviour. What they fails to take into account is that all the cults use the same justification. The Mormons, SDAs, Scientologists etc all think that their version of absolute truth is the only truth and laugh at the ignorance of the world around them. Once out of the cult though they all are really one and the same. Where Watchtower teaching is wrong is that it makes following a corporation the key to salvation, whereas the bible says that it is following Jesus that is necessary.
Increasing light is said to be the reason that Jehovahs Witnesses become clearer on points, the reality is that it is usually when Jehovah's Witnesses have been wrong, and had to change teachings. It was not increasing light that in the 1950's Jesus was said to no longer to be worshipped, it was a fundamental teach that was wrong, either then, or possibly now, and increasing light is an inadequate explaination of why the WTS got in so wrong. And the list goes on - over 30 wrong dates, pyramids, crosses, superior authorities, the generation ....... These are not clarifications, these were wrong teachings. How many wrong teachings did God allow to become part of the bible canon?
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A Paduan
Psycsnacha,
There was one more thing I wanted to write about. The original question - was that a strawman thing ?
Why do JW hypocrites PROVE that they're a cult?
You're right, being hypocritical doesn't show them to be a cult - but surely you have the insight not to extrapolate that into "therefore they are not a cult".
Being hypocrites just shows that they're hypocrites - plain as that - other stuff shows them to be a cult
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Oh and - my other family are "just human", but I haven't found them to be hypocrites - it's not a standard characteristic for "being human".
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psycsnacha
Consider Judges. Used by Jehovah despite the fact that many of them were inadequate and damaging leaders. Consider Samuel, righteous at first yet proved to be wicked. Used none the less by Jehovah. Consider David. Righteous enough to stand against Goliath yet incapable of turning away from adultery. Both righteous and wicked people have been used by Jehovah both as leaders and as examples for future bible students. Your right, inadequate scholarship is damaging, yet bible students are to train their consciouses using the bible in order to discern when elements of Jehovah's purpose are being fulfilled for us in the last days. Jehovah's purpose is far beyond any human or human organization. Consider Aaron, who lead the Israelites into idolatry by erecting the golden calf. An act that nearly caused Jehovah's anger to blaze against the people. Inadequate leadership? Maybe. Yet he was used. -
SuzieQ
Luna2, you hit the nail on the head with your "book". I've experienced the same thing within the congregation. After 20-30 years of sitting hours listening to the elders say things like " so when we really look at our effort at making more time for service, what are we seeing? Can you put in more hours, can you pioneer? What is keeping you from doing it? etc., etc.,." You get numb, depressed, feel enormous guilt for being HUMAN. I remember one assembly at the Yuba City, CA assembly hall where a divorced sister with a young son was on the stage as an example for everyone. She pioneered and worked full time and raised her son and made all the meetings. She did this through bible studies in the morning before work, at breaktime during work and at lunch time during work. Then 8 hrs a day on the weekend. My heart absolutely dropped; since I was a single mom, working a full time job and having trouble paying bills, keeping the house clean and keeping my child well. It is insidious. You just have to experience the wearing away of your spirit in this organization to understand it. Of course I imagine it to be different for men; men are actually viewed as the legitimate part of the cong. they get attention from other male members, the elders, the traveling overseers. They get to develop themselves more than the female members. Power to those of you that can hang in there. I hung in there for 35 years! I feel I wasted so much time. SuziQ California, USA
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jwfacts
Psyc,
you are not really addressing the point. There has never been any argument that God uses imperfect men, it is when a high control organisation claim you must be associated with their corporation to be acceptable to God.By your standard most cults can claim to be the only way to salvation, and they do. They say don't worry that our leader makes mistakes, we are still the only avenue to reach God. Overlook the fact that we habitualy change doctrine, our religion is the only one that teaches true doctrine.
If you are prepared to say the mistakes of the leader and ongoing wrong doctrine are not an issue, then my question is "why follow your group and not every other organisation that says the same"?
If you are interested in giving a biblical answer you should be saying that we are to follow Jesus and not any group of men.
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sass_my_frass
You think that WBTS is the most right? That they've made the least mistakes? Please read this site... it's a good summary of every thing WBTS has said would come true, and hasn't.
http://www.disfellowshipped.org/WTfalseprophecy.htm
... and to answer your question, what proves to me that they're a cult, is the mind control techniques they deploy to retain the ignorant. The hypocrisy is just a sideshow. The Mexico vs Malawi are among their greatest shame, but that only proves that they're clever businessmen, not that they're a cult. The lies they told the rank and file to cover it up, prove that they're a cult.
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AuldSoul
yet bible students are to train their consciouses using the bible in order to discern when elements of Jehovah's purpose are being fulfilled for us in the last days.
Consider this: If we are still in the throes of the Great Apostasy, would we expect the activity that Jehovah's Witnesses are engaging in at this time? Obviously not, therefore the FIRST thing you must know for certain is that these are indeed the last days.
However:
(1) You have believed lies about the conditions of the world. The world is not as bleak as the Governing Body needs you to believe.
(2) You have believed lies regarding the prophecy of Daniel against Nebuchadnezzar that would have you thinking that Jehovah would put Nebuchadnezzar as Jehovah himself in a prophetic type regarding his kingdom purpose. That idea, alone, is beyond ludicrous, not to mention that the math doesn't work and that they moved the dates of historical events around to make it seem like the math does work.
(3) You are looking at powerful works as evidence of God's blessing.
Matthew 7:21-23 — “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."
With the exception of "love" Jesus did not give any identifying mark of his disciples. But he gave many identifying marks by which we can know for sure who are NOT his disciples. On each count, Jehovah's Witnesses score high marks. Many are offered in Matthew 23.
(4) You have not tested those inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, yet (as can be seen in this post) you base your confidence that this is God's organization on whether we are living in the Last Days. If we aren't in the Last Days, the inspired expression can only have come from one other source.
1 John 4:1 — Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
A Paduan
Consider Judges. Used by Jehovah despite the fact that many of them were inadequate and damaging leaders. Consider Samuel, righteous at first yet proved to be wicked. Used none the less by Jehovah. Consider David. Righteous enough to stand against Goliath yet incapable of turning away from adultery. Both righteous and wicked people have been used by Jehovah both as leaders and as examples for future bible students.
On that basis couldn't 'Jehovah' be using anyone ? - aren't there examples of people who didn't even want to be used, or denied it was them ?
It's like an irrelevant argument then - so why is it that you're compelled to follow the wtbts who additionally have a track record of failed prophecy ?Consider Aaron, who lead the Israelites into idolatry by erecting the golden calf.
I think you'll find that He let them break loose - he accepted their gold (confession) and revealed who their gods were, " and there came out this calf" - he showed them when asked (make us gods, who shall go before us)
As a jw it's a literal world you live in. Have you considered what a "golden calf" may be, other than a yellowish statue thing?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------Nevertheless your reply persists with a strawman argument - have I considered these right and wrongdoers - Sure - so why then isn't the catholic church the 'true church' - at least they've been there from the outset, and without all those proclamations of false dates - and, they've traversed the earth as well