evolution or creation? lets talk... (page 16)

Little Drummer Boy

Little Drummer Boy- i didn`t see you contributing, easy to comment from the sidelines, are you afraid to give your opinion in case you get shot down? At least i`m not.

You're right, I haven't been commenting because;

1) There are many posters on this thread that have repeatedly provided mountains of links, information, and reasonings to try to either convince you of their position or to simply flat out help you to get into this century in your basic understanding, not of evolution "theory", but just known and proven biology.

2) They are far better word-smiths than I am, and anyway exactly how many people does it take to tell you that, in effect, the sky is blue and not purple with pink polka dots?

You want to argue against evolution. Fine. People can successfully do that if they have enough knowledge. But you don't, and apparantly will not, understand even the most basic of micro-biology (not evolution,mind you, biology). Things that are taught in any grade school in this day and age. Things like bacteria grow resistant to antibiotics. You actually argued that they don't! I have no problem at all with ignorance. None at all. We are all ignorant of many things. Willfull, continued ignorance on the other hand is inexcusable.

If you want to argue your side in a discussion, you must at least have some actual knowledge of what it is that everybody is discussing...or be willing to learn. You have proven that you are not willing to learn even though you have posted to the contrary.

Deputy Dog

Sam

I think, I have to stick with creation, until someone gets evolution started without God, what is there to talk about?

Deputy Dog

LT

The reason bacteria are such a good exampleis that they have such a fast reproductive rate ( some in the order of 20 minutes ) that they can evolve fast enough to see it. For example, if it takes 100 generations to effect a small change that would take abour 3,000 years in man, but only 33 hours in bacteria. I don't know how many that is in dog or cat years, I'm afraid

Shouldn't we be seeing bacteria turning into other things? As far as I know they just keep turning into bacteria. At that speed it shouldn't take billions and billions and billions and billions... of years

Imagine what that would be in dog years

AuldSoul

I think the Wadoma (or Vadoma) tribe of Zimbabwe, Africa might show you an instance where the societal approval and apprecation for a genetic "defect" has allowed that defect to becmoe a prominent part of the tribe's societal makeup. Two parents with the same genetic "defect" on the 7th chromosome would have an incredibly high chance of producing an offspring with the same "defect". But, it is difficult to term it a genetic defect, because in their culture it the resulting person is not defective.

Should enough generations of humans having this same defect become societally separated from other humans, for long enough, they would speciate. A race of two-toed humans, who would only produce sterile offspring if they bred with "normal" humans.

Because of the time frames involved in evolution, no one life span will be able to trace out an instance of macro evolution. However, it would be very unlikely that anyone would find ANY fossil remains of such a small tribe should such a society have been isolated 200,000 years ago. And, like the Wadoma, if we did find the fossil record it would appear as though the two lived together simultaneously, it would seem no transition occurred at all. The two-toed people would seem to have arrived in a speciated state and would seem to have spontaneously appeared.

It is just an accident of timing that we came to know of them at a time when the fact that they ARE NOT speciated could be recorded. It is also an accident of timing that due to exposure to the Western world, speciation is likely to never occur.

But you asked for a current example. That is the closest you will get, as far as I know.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

dido

LDB- there are many posters that have provided links. information and so called reasonings for evolution, and just because i don`t go along with it i am not in this century, huh? Just because they say the sky is blue doesn`t mean i believe it. I didn`t argue that bacteria grows resistant to antibiotics at all, i said that the body gets immune to antibiotics. I posted on here in favour of creation, and have been barraged by evolutionists, who have `had` to try and prove it to me. I answered the question about creation, did i believe in it. By the way, i haven`t been to school for over 35 years, so we didn`t know about a lot of the things that they teach now. How old are you, 16?

stevenyc

Dido, it's a shame you don't want to continue the discution because you have actually contributed to it, albeit inadvertently, demonstrating the processes of evolution.

This process is described as "mutation and natural selection result in variation".

There is a difference between you and me with regard to prescribed antibiotics. That difference is a variation in our species. Us being humans. Those antibiotics work for me, however, they don't work for you.

I assume that you believe that we are all descended from Adam and Eve. They are both our very distant grandparents. Their kids were given their genes when they were born. That is called 'inheritance'.

In post 304 you showed how gene inheritance transferred your fathers genes to you. You can see this because both you and your father share this same variation.

My father transferred his genes to me through inheritance, and you can see that both he and myself do not carry with us the same genes, as the antibiotics work for us.

So, somewhere between our common grandparents and today something happened where a variation between our species occurred.

That is evolution.

steve

AuldSoul

dido,

To be fair, you asked for proof. People have been trying to fulfill your request. There is enough evidence to serve as proof for many people, but I don't get the feeling anyone is trying to force you to accept the evidence they accept. At least, I know what I just wrote was offering what you asked for: an instance.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Satanus

Deputy dog

I think, I have to stick with creation, until someone gets evolution started without God, what is there to talk about?

Can someone get the creator god going? That's all the proof creationists need, just wake up the main character of their belief system.

S

done4good

I believe in creation purely and simply for the fact that human beings are too complex to `just happen`.

I'm sure after 6 more pages this has been discussed at nausium, but as many have already said, it is the creationists' view that human beings, (as well as all other life and non-life matter), just happened. Evolution is based on CUMMULATIVE changes over VERY LONG periods of time. So long, that we humans have a very difficult time attempting to put that kind of time into perspective. Occasional mutations of simpler organisms eventually produced more complex organisms. Were not talking about periods of hundreds or even a few thousand years in most cases. These periods were far longer than that, and sufficient enough to allow for the probability that more advanced species would result within that length of time. Species that evolved "less than useful" traits, were often weeded out of existance via natural selection, those that evolved more "useful" traits, typically survived. Hardly a matter of "just happening". The probability of a god existing that somehow accomplished this is far less likely, in terms of sheer numbers.

While science cannot categorically prove every aspect of evolution, (there are many debates as to HOW it happened), there are indeed hard facts for a great deal of the theory. What we know of creation completely disagrees from what facts we do KNOW about evolution.

I'll put my wager on science.

j

AuldSoul

LDB,

2) They are far better word-smiths than I am, and anyway exactly how many people does it take to tell you that, in effect, the sky is blue and not purple with pink polka dots?

The sky is NOT blue. It only seems that way from your perspective, due to (1) the physical phenomenon known as Rayleigh scattering and (2) your capacity to perceive wavelengths/particles of light.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

evolution or creation? lets talk...

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