JW Children Lie in Custody Cases (page 14)

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BTTT---------please see, repetition for emphasis-----------

www.dannyhaszard.com/whylie.htm

Thank you,

CoCo

Oroborus21

AllAlong,

you might be interested to see that I placed the Armstrongian group within the Adventist umbrella.

http://www.jehovahs-witnesses.info/adventism.html

Regarding other points from your post, not that i feel any need to justify certain choices, but with my daughter's website, what many do not understand is that I do not know all of the friends and family of my ex-wife who are from abroad, or whom she may have told about the site, or whom in my large extended family might be interested or who might google it up, so for that reason and others it is "public." (Who knows if I keep it going maybe one day someone will offer to put her in commercials or something - that would be good for her economic future.) Anyway, if you read carefully my comments regarding the site "being for family" earlier in this thread and in response to criticism you will see that they were not so much about the website itself but about the particular page which states explicitly that "family and friends" who wish to contribute to her college education fund can do so. (That would obviously only be something that family and friends would want to do and by not passwording it, it allows them to see that they can do it without jumping through any hoops.)

As for my JW info site, as you can see I am still in the process of creating content, not even 5% of it is done yet. All of it gets refined over time, even as new information comes to my attention or as I continue in progressing in my personal study of these issues, or even as a result of the feedback that I am getting. It's a work in progress.

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Regarding the topic of this thread, it seems a common problem that people are unable to appreciate nuance and distinction. I am not defending the booklet itself or in whole and have stated many times that I think it is pretty crappy for a number of different reasons. (In short to take a specific side on a one issue or a small excerpt of something larger does not mean that one holds that same position with regard to the larger thing. Get it?)

I have tried to keep an open mind as to why many (and certainly the majority here) insist that the booklet in whole or in part is "misleading" and can see and agree with the points made to a certain extent. My issues were with the specific paragraphs cited in the original post of this thread and how I felt that that specific citation did not lead to misleading the court or advocating that JWs lie to the court. that is all of my point and I have stated why i believe so ad nauseum now.

(just an aside, a recent contribution to this thread suggested by someone, seems to imply that it is wrong to have a different emphasis or change in information in different situations. I think the comment was somehting like that JWs should say the same thing from the platform as in court. It just seems to me that it isn't wrong to recognize that different situations call for different communication and that in such communication certain things might be stressed while in other circumstances those points would not be stressed.)

(aside to AuldSoul, I think you give too much weight to a single word "care" which is not really there. the point being made by the paragraph in question would be no different without the word care as it would if it had been exaggerated "give extra care" for example. that point again was to let the child know that this court or child-custody setting, unlike a theocratic one, is a setting where they do not have to feel obligated to emphasize their theocratic activities or goals. (one of my criticisms with the brochure is that it is poorly written.) Regarding your comments about pioneering, that I take issue with because it is very obvious that not every JW parent accepts the Society's push towards pioneering and many JW parents do not goad their children or push them into full-time service.)

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Dear Oroborus,

Thank you for your ongoing contributions to this thread. All points of view are welcomed and given due consideration.

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bttt

AuldSoul

Regarding your comments about pioneering, that I take issue with because it is very obvious that not every JW parent accepts the Society's push towards pioneering and many JW parents do not goad their children or push them into full-time service.

It is also very obvious that not all JWs follow various other church counsel. However, if the parents have not followed frequent and direct church counsel, there is no need for care (minimal, maximal, or otherwise). QED, the only parents who would need to exercise care at all in that instance are those who have followed the counsel and advice of the cult's Governing Body.

I know logic is a peculiarly challenging thing for you, but I think even you can follow that line of reasoning to its unavoidable conclusion. The only reason any care would need to be exercised in making sure not all the children say their goal is pioneering is if that outcome is a distinct possibility. As you have said, the only reason that might be a possibility is if the children all have the goal of pioneering.

Whether or not the parents do what the cult tells them to do is what determines whether care is needed on this point. If the parents haven't done what the cult tells them to do there is no risk, therefore no need for care.

Any one of these should be understandable. Take your pick. I hope (against hope?) that you can discern the underlying point. However, you have given me the impression you still think it is the truth and God will swoop down on His fiery chariot someday and whip it into shape.

I will PM you a question I have been dying to ask you regarding the likelihood of religious reform among JWs, and the source of such reform.

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BTTT

Thank you, Auld Soul...........

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IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM

Legalism---Opponent of Christian Freedom

Ray Franz

If you have this book, please review chapter 8, pages 237 - 285.

"So it is by the New World society's application of the stated Scriptural commands, examples, rules and principles to the issues and problems of life, a great body of theocratic law is being built up." ---The Watchtower, 15 May 1963, p. 300.

More to follow........

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ISOCF, ibid., p. 237

"You are not under law but under undeserved kindness." ---Romans 6:14

"[They] attempted to tie us up with rules and regulations." ---Galatians 2:4,
Phillips Modern English

Legalism has been a major obstacle to genuine Christianity from the earliest of times. It was already manifest when Jesus appeared as God's Sent-One, the Messiah. It particularly dominated the thinking of the group known as the "Pharisees." That name means "the separated ones," and as one reference work states, "There is much to be said for the view that the group received their name through understanding themselves as the fellowship which embodied the true Israel and distancing themselves from the rest of the nation." [Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol II, page 810.]
Historically the fellowship of the Pharisees was born in pre-Christian times as part of a movement that had an essentially noble goal: to encourage religious devotion and obedience to God's Law (The Torah) [,] a course then being threatened by growing Greek influence. Such "Hellenization" had, from the time of Alexander the Great's conquest of Israel, been steadily encroaching upon the thinking, practices and daily life of the Jewish nation. The Pharisees believed that a return to full obedience to the God-given Law was vital in order to prepare for the coming of the Messiah. Consequently they claimed to be ardent supporters and defenders of the purity of the worship of God; Jesus himself acknowledged that they had a degree of righteousness.---Matthew 5:20.

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ISOCF, continued:

In the end, however, they wound up being among the prime opposers of the Messiah at his coming. No other group came in for such strong and repeated censure from Christ. Their concern for demonstrating loyalty to God and his law had turned into legalism, a legalism that caused them to become narrow and rigid and to lose sight of those things which are the most vital, including justice, mercy, faithfulness and love of neighbor. (Matthew 12:1-14; 23:23) They were intensely concerned about avoiding anything that would make them "unclean" before God. They sought to "make a fence around the Law," ostensibly as a protection against anyone's overstepping it and transgressing. [see the WATCHTOWER May 1, 1980, page 6.] To accomplish this they "set out to comment, analyze, and interpret Torah [the Law] to meet every possible case and contingency of life with an industry and persistence that would have done credit to medieval schoolmen. The result was a subtle and intricate web of case-law, which was also a terrible drag on ordinary human existence." [W.H.C. Frend, THE RISE OF CHRISTIANITY (Fortress Press, Philadelphia), 1984, pages 24, 25]

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JW Children Lie in Custody Cases

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