Why is it that believers always call foul when someone challenges them? ... No believer ever answers that question.
Starting Over,
Where did I call foul? .. since you use words like "always" and "no believer ever". By the way, would you care to explain how you personally justify your own existence in light of your own moral failures? All my other opponents failed to do so. Will you fail as well? Or, do you just not like those that ask the wrong questions? Independent thinking I believe it's called. Share with us your enlightenment.
Paralip wrote:
Actually Perry, you are assuming that because I am arguing religious theory, that I'm a religious person.
Where did I assume that?
In what way did we become like God and what means were available to man to redeem himself?
Like I said before, Adam received the knowledge of good and bad directly from his own spirit which was from God. He could not know this information in his mind because he had no experience and he was a finite being with knowing limitations. He simply adhered to the governing principle that goverened his mind. When, he ate of the tree of G & B he chose to determine with his finite mind what was good and bad the same way God determines with his Infinite Mind the same. His spirit deflated as God withdrew his "breath" of life as he promised he would if the wrong choice was made.... there were consequences, thus freedom.
In this way he became like God positing moral determination within his own self. Man cannot redeem himself. However, just as we didn't ask to be born with a moral deficiency, we also didn't ask to be granted a full pardon, a new vibrant spirit, and sonship with God. Yet, that is on the table for all. Why don't you accept God's offer since it is abundantly apparent that you cannot save yourself.... from yourself? What is it that keeps you from Christ since you've nothing to lose except a little hurt pride from acknowledging that you can't get to where you'd like to be morally? Millions of people will testify that it is working out beuatifully for them, even as they suffer the fallen word around them. I highly reccommend it myself, but that's just me.
Sir writes:
He's the grand designer - before there were any [capable of evil] beings in existence, God was planning this whole thing out. Knowing that a "choice" of evil was bound to be made, why proceed according to "Plan A", where the universe is hostile & the innocent suffer by the billions? Why not go with "Plan B", where the universe is just, the sinful pay for their errors, but the innocent are spared?
You sound as if there have ever been humans that were innocent, like there are some people that are sinful and some that are not. Where are these people without the propensity to sin that God treats so unjustly as you claim?
They do not exist except in your illusion you construct by which you seek to accuse God. Instead of focusing on your own lack of justification for existence, you seem to seek to deny God's right to exist, even though you accept his Infinite existence.... even if it is only for the intellectual instrumental purpose of attacking Him.
To sum this thread all up:
1. My opponents agree that they are all liars, thieves, and adulterers. (as I was btw, and my flesh still is)
2. They wisely do not even attempt to morally justify their own existence.
3. They seek to deny God's right to exist by accusing him of things that they agree cannot be understood by finite minds.
4. Thus they cannot complain if God chooses to judge them by the standards by which they judge Him.
5. They presently reject God's pardon, even though they admit guilt.
6. They lack faith like the screaming child in my parable and experience discord unlike the other children who accepted what was given to them and experienced joy.
7. They refuse to just have a beer with me and fugetaboutit, since this thread was directed to lurkers who unknowingly reject Christ unlike them that do so knowingly.
With that I'm outta here! Thanks to all for a wonderful discussion. No hard feelings toward any of my opponents. To each his own. If it floats your boat do it. If the boat sinks call a Jewish Carpenter. I hear he's coming to a Kingdom Hall near you April 2nd.
Peace to all!
