by Sirona 106 Replies latest jw friends
I think that is a sign of rather backward society where people are into magic, witchcrafts, divination etc.
ROFL!
Mariaruet, - a backward society? What about ancient egypt? http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/magic_01.shtml
And you think that Christian society ISNT backward?
How strange...
Sirona
Great point, Sirona!
Egyptians were the bomb and their magick and understanding of the mysteries (imo) has yet to be topped. It certainly influenced a little wandering semitic tribe that took refuge there for a few generations then left for Canaan with a great company of egyptians and no doubt a few religious icons as well....then that little tribe spawned Christianity.
Everything is everything.
Yes Sirona, you are quite right there Christians have proven themselves over the centuries to be quite backward, were it not for them Dark Age probably wouldn't have happened.
As for Enypt, well what can I say, they were advanced when looked from the standpoint of hunter-gatherers but quite backward from our modern standpoint ;-) but I respect your views.
No not really, I never met anyone who uses it. I think that is a sign of rather backward society where people are into magic, witchcrafts, divination etc.
Backward society?
Yes, I would agree that Paganism or Witchcraft was practiced by the ancients but that does not make it less practical for more contemporary times; when you consider its counterpart the Craft is probably far more advanced than you care to realise. Christianity has allowed itself to be infected by a patriachal and almost misogynistic society where womens rights and roles as teachers have dwindled away; Whilst it could be argued that paganism is often matrifocal there is a fundamental equality that balances prior oppression. The Witch trials and the burnings were an example of societies attempt to oppress women because of male fear and need to dominate. All this in the name of Christianity - how backward is that? Its a sign of our prior indoctrination that we assume much about things we simply have little or no knowledge about; I assume that you didnt mean any offence by your comment but I would suggest that you read a little more about the subject and gain a deeper understanding of it before expressing condemnation. Just my thoughts Peace! Gary
No. I'd never use witchcraft if it existed. Mother nature and my decision making are enough.
(Stomp my foot and disapear in a rush of sulfur smoke)
Gary, you seem a bit upset with what I said, well I just expressed my own thoughts no offence intended. But hey if you are right those things will one day come back to universities and if not I haven't missed much ;-)
The three Aeons
The first Aeon of Isis was maternal, where the female aspect of the Godhead was revered due to a mostly matriarchal society and the idea that "Mother Earth" nourished, clothed and housed man. It was characterized by pagan worship of the Mother and Nature. Crowley describes this period as "simple, quiet, easy, and pleasant; the material ignores the spiritual" (Equinox of the Gods).
The Classical/Medieval Aeon of Osiris is considered to be dominated by the Paternal Principle and the formula of the Dying God. This Aeon was characterized by that of self-sacrifice and submission to the Father God. Crowley says of this Aeon:
- Formula of Osiris, whose word is IAO; so that men worshiped Man, thinking him subject to Death, and his victory dependent upon Resurrection. Even so conceived they of the Sun as slain and reborn with every day, and every year. (Heart of the Master)
He also says of the Aeon of Osiris in Equinox of the Gods:
- the second [Aeon] is of suffering and death: the spiritual strives to ignore the material. Christianity and all cognate religions worship death, glorify suffering, deify corpses.
The modern Aeon of Horus, with our times of self-realization as well as a growing interest in all things spiritual, is considered to be dominated by the Principle of the Child. The Word of its Law is Thelema (will) which is complimented by Agape (love), and its formula is Abrahadabra. Individuality and finding the "True Will" are the dominant aspects; its formula is that of growth, in consciousness and love, toward self-realization.
Of the Aeon of Horus, Crowley writes:
- the crowned and conquering child, who dieth not, nor is reborn, but goeth radiant ever upon His Way. Even so goeth the Sun: for as it is now known that night is but the shadow of the Earth, so Death is but the shadow of the Body, that veileth his Light from its bearer. (Heart of the Master)
And also:
- The Aeon of Horus is here: and its first flower may well be this: that, freed of the obsession of the doom of the Ego in Death, and of the limitation of the Mind by Reason, the best men again set out with eager eyes upon the Path of the Wise, the mountain track of the goat, and then the untrodden Ridge, that leads to the ice-gleaming pinnacles of Mastery! (Little Essays Towards Truth, "Mastery")
Sirona:
You'll probably think this is "convenient"
How spookily accurate
it really is difficult to measure exact effects with most spells. For instance, you may want someone protected and this protection could be immeasurable in any real sense.
Then how do you know they work? How do you know they don't have a negative effect?
However, I'd say they should try fertility spells and see how many of the women get pregnant within a designated three months. It would be interesting to see if it was higher than expected. However, there would need to be certain things in place to prevent the researcher's energy interfering with the results. People knowing and talking about spells, and thereby adding their own influence, sometimes can botch the thing up LOL.
Absolutely. Sounds like the perfect subject for a scientific study. You'd need quite a few fertile women, half of whom would have to act as a control group so it might be impractical for mere amateurs, but that's certainly the sort of thing that could be tested.
Also in things like pregnancy, there is the whole question of whether that person is "meant" to have a child in this particular life.
That sounds like another get-out clause. If it has no effect, it's not because it doesn't work but because it wasn't meant to.
So someone might say to me that they want their house to sell. I could provide them with the tools and instructions, but the result depends upon factors such as 1. do they really WANT to sell it in the first place 2. do they have enough focus or desire to perform the spell 3. are they expecting a stupid sum for the property and thereby being unrealistic and trying to change the economy rather than sell a house LOL etc.
In your experience, do witches (or friends of witches) generally sell their houses more quickly than non-witches?
Brigid:
What I think you are saying is that all spells, ritual, magick is "In your head"
Correct.
and therefore, your opinion would be that because it is psychological, or all in your head, somehow diminishes it to insignificance.
Not necessarily. Rituals such as prayer, meditation or spell-casting can help focus the mind as you describe, which can lead to personal successes. No problem with that. It's a well-understood phenomenon. However, I see no evidence for the additional claims that the external world can be affected by such spells. (Those being prayed for or blessed can of course benefit from the placebo effect if they are aware of what is being done for them, but there appears to be no effect beyond that.)
Yes, have done many times. I don't think there's anything "supernatural" involved (if such things work, they work for anybody, which means they're natural and not supernatural - I pretty much reject the term). I don't subscribe to "oooooo...scary...mysterious" beliefs about any of this stuff. It just is or it isn't. Some members of my family have had abilities that were pretty much matter-of-fact. For instance, back when they didn't have telephones (or electricity, or running water until the late 50's) my grandpa would always know when family was coming to visit...he'd just tell his mom, or later, my grandma, "We're going to have company for lunch" and she'd make extra. He had no way of knowing because sometimes family would just stop by and have no way to call ahead. Nothing odd or spooky or mysterious...just something he could do.
I don't consider myself terribly gullible. I'm basically agnostic about all of it, but am often willing to give it a try just in case.
RE:karma - you can't really say that we've imported the idea of karma from Eastern religions. Our idea of 'karma'...that our actions will either be rewarded or come back to bite us in the ass *in this life* (that's not karma, that's common sense)...is NOT the same as the idea of karma in Eastern religions, which, as I understand it, deals mostly with reincarnation. At most, we've imported the word, not the concept.
RE:witchcraft - the main problem with the term is that, as Europeans went out to 'discover' and 'study' other cultures, whenever they came across a culture that believed that people could use some sort of supernatural force (usually through emotion) to cause harm to others, they'd translate that as 'witchcraft'. When the Christian god is involved they call it 'miracles' ...when other gods were involved they call it 'gullibility and coincidence' In some African groups, the person may not even know that they are doing it...many 'witches' (again with the translation) in those cultures are unaware that they're witches.
Anthropology now often has to add a seperate note in the definition that this is very different from modern neopagan witchcraft.
I think many many religions (especially fundamentalist Christianity) uses what I consider folk magic (edited to add:that 'burying a saint upside down to sell your house' thing is a good example of this - it's not a Christian doctrine thing *at all*)...when a whole church 'prays real hard' for certain outcomes (a favorable outcome in a legal case, certain politicians to get elected, people to be healed), they are directing *emotional energy* to effect a certain outcome...which anthropology defines as witchcraft (although I'd be amazed if you could find an anthropologist [besides me] who'd call it that...we're pretty myopic when it comes to western culture). Folk magic is a component that may be present or absent in any religion.
JWs in general are one of the groups where anything that smells of folk-magic-y influence is avoided like the plague. Even their group prayers are dry and seem to be without that.
But hey if you are right those things will one day come back to universities and if not I haven't missed much ;-)
I think you'd be quite surprised at the number of highly educated and well-placed people who practice some form of occultism.
